1966: The Year Black Power Redefined Civil Rights

>>> TO THE BACK POWER MOVEMENT AND THE YEAR THAT REDEFINED A 1966 JOURNALIST EXPLORING THAT MOMENTOUS YEAR AND THE PEOPLE THAT SHAPED IT IN HIS NEW BOOK "SAYING IT LOUD."

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO EXPLAIN.

>> MARK WHITAKER, THANKS FOR JOINING US SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT, THE BLACK PANTHERS HAS THIS AMAZING CENTRAL CHARACTER OF COURSE STOKELY CARMICHAEL.

TELL ME ABOUT HIM.

>> STOKELY CARMICHAEL WAS BORN IN THE CARIBBEAN AND RAISED IN NEW YORK.

HE WANT TO HOWARD UNIVERSITY AND BECAME INVOLVED WITH ACTIVISM THERE.

HE WAS AN ORGANIZER IN THE DEEP SOUTH REGISTERING BLACKS TO VOTE IN MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA.

AND THEN IN EARLY 19 -- IN THE SPRING OF 1966 AT A RETREAT, A SNAKE RETREAT OUTSIDE OF TENNESSEE WHERE JOHN LEWIS WHO HAD BEEN THE CHAIRMAN WAS EXPECTING TO BE EASILY REELECTED -- >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STUDENT NON-VIOLATING COORDINATING COMMITTEE RAISING FROM 1965 ON WARD AS A CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP.

>> EXACTLY.

FORMED BY YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HAD COME OUT OF THE SIT IN MOVEMENT IN THE SOUTH AND EARLY '60s.

AND JOHN LEWIS, YOU KNOW, WAS A NATIONAL FIGURE AT THIS POINT AFTER BEING BEATEN ON THE ED EDMOND PETTIS BRIDGE EXPECTING TO BE REELECTED AND A REVOTE IS DEMANDED AND THIS -- THERE IS A WILD SCENE IN WHICH IT'S A WHOLE CHAPTER IN MY BOOK OF THIS NIGHT LONG MEETING AND INCREASINGLY HEATED VOTE THAT -- AND DISCUSSION THAT GOES UNTIL DAWN AND THEN FINALLY IN THE SECOND VOTE, STOKELY CARMICHAEL IS ELECTED THE NEW CHAIRMAN.

REPRESENTING A MESSAGE THAT CRUSHED JOHN LEWIS AND PUT STOKELY ALL OF A SUDDEN NOT A WELL-KNOWN FIGURE AT THAT TIME ON THE NATIONAL MAP.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE MEETING IN TENNESSEE IN NEW KINGSTON.

WHAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE?

>> STOKELY WAS CLOSE TO DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING AND HIS VISION OF INTEGRATION AND TACTICS OF NON-VIOLENCE AND BEEN INVITED TO MEET WITH PRESIDENT JOHNSON AND SO THERE WAS THIS MORE MILITANT FACTION BY 1966 THAT WAS QUESTIONING ALL OF THAT AND ALSO THOUGHT THAT JOHN LEWIS WAS SORT OF OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT ALL AND, YOU KNOW, STOKELY WAS -- STOOD FOR A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE WAS, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONING WHETHER THE WHOLE VISION AND AGENDA OF INTEGRATION REALLY, YOU KNOW, WAS WORKING AND ALSO.

WHETHER BLACKS SHOULD BE NECESSARILY ALWAYS COMMITTED UNCONDITIONALLY TO NON-VIOLENCE, THAT BLACK FOLKS, POOR BLACK FOLKS IN THE SOUTH AND URBAN NORTH WHEN CONFRONTED WITH VIOLENCE PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT NON-VIOLENCE.

LET ME READ A SENTENCE OF YOUR BOOK TO THE HEART OF THAT.

IT STOKELY CARMICHAEL SAYING OF DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING, HE MADE ONLY ONE ASSUMPTION IN ORDER FOR NON-VIOLENCE TO WORK, YOUR OPPONENT HAS TO HAVE A CONSCIENCE.

THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT HAVE A CONSCIENCE.

THAT SEEMS TO BE AN AMAZING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DR. KING AND STOKELY CARMICHAEL.

>> YEAH, AND LOOK, THE LEADERS THAT EMERGE IN THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT IN 1966, IN THE SOUTH YOU HAD THIS NEW LEADERSHIP WITHIN SNICK, THEY HAD SPENT THE PREVIOUS FOUR OR FIVE YEARS ORGANIZING VOTERS, BLACK VOTERS TO VOTE IN DEEP, YOU KNOW, ALABAMA, MISSISSIPPI, PLACES WHERE THE KU KLUX KLAN OPERATED WITH IMPUNITY AND EVEN WHERE THE POLICE WERE INCREDIBLY VIOLENT TOWARDS THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND BLACK FOLKS HAD SHOTGUNS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES SO THEIR ATTITUDE IS WE CAN'T GO INTO PLACES LIKE THAT AND EXPECT BLACKS TO PUT DOWN ARMS AND NOT DEFEND THEMSELVES.

MEANWHILE HUGHIE NEWTON THAT FOUNDED THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY IN OAKLAND THAT YEAR WERE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, THE VIOLENCE OF THE WHITE POLICE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE STILL LIVING WITH TODAY, THE IDEA THAT BLACK FOLKS, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T HAVE RIGHTS ON HOW TO DEFEND THEMSELVES OR PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST POLICE VIOLENCE ALSO WAS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS NOT AT ALL UNREASONABLE.

>> THAT IS WHAT THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY'S ORIGINAL NAME WAS ABOUT, RIGHT?

>> THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY FOR SELF-DEFENSE AND THEY HAD ACTUALLY TAKEN THAT SYMBOL.

IT'S AN INTERESTING STORY.

THE ORIGINAL BLACK PANTHER PARTY HAD BEEN FOUNDED BY STOKELY CARMICHAEL OR AT LEAST HE HELPED ORGANIZE IT IN RURAL ALABAMA IN A PLACE CALLED LOUNS COUNTY WHERE HE HAD NOT ONLY ORGANIZED BLACKS TO VOTE BUT IT ACTUALLY GOT THEM TO FORM THEIR OWN POLITICAL PARTY AND ADOPTED AS THEIR SYMBOL FOR -- TO BE RECOGNIZED BY PEOPLE AT THE POLLS THAT COULDN'T NECESSARILY READ A BLACK PANTHER AND LATER THAT YEAR, THAT SYMBOL WAS ADOPTED BY HUGHIE NEWTON AND BOBBY SEAL AND THEY HAD A TEN-POINT PROGRAM AND PRACTICAL BUT THEIR MAIN AGENDA AND MAIN PROGRAM WAS THIS IDEA OF CIVILIAN PATROLS THAT WOULD GO AROUND OAKLAND KEEPING AN EYE ON THE POLICE AND BECAUSE CALIFORNIA HAD OPEN CARRY GUN LAWS AT THE TIME THEY WOULD BE ARMED.

NOT NECESSARILY TO CONFRONT THE POLICE BUT JUST TO KEEP AN EYE ON THEM.

>> STOKELY CARMICHAEL USES THE PHRASE BLACK POWER I THINK IN A SPEECH EARLY IN 1966.

MAYBE IN GREENWOOD, MISSISSIPPI.

TELL ME DID HE REALLY POPULARIZE THAT PHRASE AND WHAT DID HE MEAN BY IT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM?

>> THE REAL CREDIT FOR COMING UP WITH THE SLOGAN AND ENCOURAGING STOKELY TO USE IT GOES TO ANOTHER SNAKE ORGANIZER NAMED WILLY RICKS AND I TELL HIS STORY IN THE BOOK.

IT'S INTERESTING.

THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT SLOGAN THAT WAS CAP NIPPED TO THE PRESS.

SO AS SOON AS THE STORY STARTED, YOU KNOW, IT WAS RECORDED THAT STOKELY HAD USED THIS PHRASE, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE STORIES WERE PICKED UP BY PAPERS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

HE WAS BOOKED A FEW DAYS LATER ON "FACE THE NATION" AND THE WHITE PRESS WAS VERY INTRIGUED BUT IMMEDIATELY ASSUMED THE WORST THAT IT MEANT REJECTION OF NON-VIOLENCE.

STOKELY TALKED ABOUT THE IDEA DON'T JUST REGISTER TO VOTE BUT USE YOUR VOTING POWER TO ELECT BLACK OFFICIALS.

IT WASN'T AT ALL A CRAZY OR RADICAL IDEA.

BUT AS I SHOW, IT'S SEVERAL POINTS DURING THE BOOK WHEN GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT BLACK POWER WAS TO WHITE AUDIENCES ON SHOWS LIKE "FACE THE NATION" AND ""MEET THE PRESS" IN A PRIME TIMER ERA WAS PROVOCATIVE DID NOT REALLY TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY AND AS A RESULT, I THINK THE SLOGAN WAS BADLY MISUNDERSTOOD BY A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> THIS NOTION OF PUSHING BLACK POWER, I THINK YOU SAY IN THE BOOK THAT IT WAS THE MOST DRAMATIC SHIFT IN THE LONG STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE IN AMERICA SINCE THE DAWN OF THE MODERN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

WHAT WAS THE SHIFT?

>> IT WAS QUESTIONING THE GOAL OF INTEGRATION, YOU KNOW, WHICH EVERYBODY ASSOCIATES WITH DR. KING AND THE I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH AND ESSENTIALLY, WHAT STOKELY AND THESE, YOU KNOW, THE YOUNGER GENERATION WAS SAYING WAS YOU KNOW WHAT?

WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT INTEGRATION, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY MIDDLE CLASS BLACK FOLKS TALKING TO ENLIGHTENED MIDDLE CLOSE WHITES ABOUT WHETHER THEY COULD INTEGRATE BUT THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAD SEEN IN PLACES LIKE ALABAMA AND IN PLACES LIKE OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA WHERE THE PANTHERS WERE STARTED WAS THAT WHITE FOLKS HAD NO INTEREST IN INTEGRATING WITH THE BLACKS IN THE SOUT IN THE INNER CITY AND DR. KING TOOK IT TO CHICAGO IN 1966 HE FOUND OUT THE WHITE RESIDENTS OF CHICAGO HAD NO INTEREST IN HAVING BLACKS MOVE INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO IT WAS REALLY A QUESTION OF HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD TRYING TO KIND OF PURSUE AN AGENDA OF RACIAL JUSTICE IN THE ABSENCE OF INTEGRATION?

>> SO TELL ME ABOUT THE WHITE BACKLASH THAT HAPPENS IN 1966.

>> I HAD NOT REALIZED WHAT A TURNING POINT 1966 WAS IN AMERICAN POLITICAL HISTORY.

WE THINK OF 1968 AND THE ELECTION OF RICHARD NIXON AND DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION BUT IN 1966 THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STARTS TO REBOUND.

RONALD REAGAN IS ELECTED A GOVERNOR IN CALIFORNIA.

THE REPUBLICANS IN THE MIDTERMS PICKED UP A BUNCH OF SEATS IN THE HOUSE, STATE HOUSES.

AND IT'S LARGELY ON THE STRENGTH OF WHITE BACKLASH AGAINST WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE RACE RIOTS IN 1966 AS THERE HAD BEEN IN 1965 BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, JUST WITHIN A MATTER OF MONTHS, YOU SEE THIS NEW SLOGAN OF BLACK POWER JUST SCARING BLACK PEOPLE, CHANGING THE POLL NUMBERS ON RACIAL ATTITUDES AND THEN LEADING TO THIS HUGE REBOUND BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS WHICH ALSO IS THE MOMENT WHEN RICHARD NIXON STARTS THINKING MAYBE I CAN HAVE ANOTHER SHOT AT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

>> IN YOUR BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT THE UNREST IN 1965 AND THEN THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT AND THAT SLOGAN IN 1966 CAUSING A WHITE BACKLASH.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU SEE ECHOES OF THAT IN THE BACKLASH AGAINST THE BLACK LIVES MATTER AND SOME OF THE UNREST WE'VE SEEN RECENTLY?

>> I SEE VERY STRONG.

IT'S INTERESTING.

I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF WRITING THE BOOK IN THE SUMMER OF 2020 WHEN YOU HAVE A MOVING AND HISTORIC BLACK LIVES MATTER RESPONSE TO THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND YOU HAVE HAD, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE STREETS BOTH BLACK AND WHITE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD AND EVERYBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS MOMENT OF RACIAL RECKONING AND THINGS ARE REALLY DIFFERENT THIS TIME AND I WAS THINKING, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO LAST IF YOU LOOK AT THE LESSONS OF 1966, THIS COULD BE FOLLOWED BY VERY STRONG PUSH BACK VERY QUICKLY.

AND INDEED THAT'S WHAT WE SEEN A COUPLE YEARS LATER.

YOU LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF VOTER SUPPRESSION, EFFORTS AROUND THE COUNTRY BUT PARTICULARLY RIGHT NOW THIS WHOLE ATTACK ON BLACK STUDIES LED BY GOVERNOR DeSANTIS IN FLORIDA AND THAT'S WHERE THE DISCUSSION IS AND REMINISCING OF 1966.

>> YOUR FATHER WAS A PIONEER OF BLACK STUDIES A PROPOSSESSOR OF PRINCETON IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY?

AND THE NOTION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES AND BLACK HISTORY WAS NOT DONE FOR THE PURPOSES YOU SEE PEOPLE ACCUSING IT OF NOW ESPECIALLY GOVERNOR DeSANTIS IN FLORIDA.

EXPLAINED HOW THAT CHANGED.

>> IF YOU LISTEN TO RON DeSANTIS, YOU THINK THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF BLACK STUDIES WAS TO MAKE WHITE YOUNG WHITE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND FEEL BADLY ABOUT THEIR PRIVILEGE.

THAT WASN'T AT ALL THE ORIGINAL IDEA OF THE ORIGINAL ADVOCATES OF BLACK STUDIES.

WHEN BLACK STUDENTS ON CAMPUSES AROUND THE COUNTRY IN THE -- STARTING IN 1966 AND OVER THE SUBSEQUENT YEARS WERE MARCHING, PROTESTING, DEMANDING BLACK STUDIES, IT WAS REALLY FOR THEIR OWN.

THEY THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T KNOW BLACK HISTORY WELL ENOUGH AND HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT IT TODAY, I, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT IN THE SORT OF MULTI CULTURAL WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN TODAY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TELL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE TO STUDY JUST ONE VERSION OF HISTORY.

THIS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, OLD FASHIONED WHICH WAS MOSTLY ABOUT THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF POWERFUL WHITE MEN, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THAT'S NOT THE ONLY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HISTORY.

SO THERE IS ALSO A CITIZENSHIP COMPONENT THAT THE EARLY PROPONENTS OF BLACK STUDIES SAY WE WANT TO BE AMERICANS.

WE WANT TO STAY HERE.

WE'RE NOT DOING TO TAKE UP ARMS AND TRY TO OVER THROW THE GOVERNMENT.

BUT WE FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, JUST TO ACCEPT OUR POSITION AND FUTURE AS AMERICAN CITIZENS WE HAVE A RIGHT TO UNDERSTAND THE ROLE THAT WE HAVE PLAYED IN THE JOURNEY AND HISTORICAL JOURNEY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT SHIFTING POLITICS BUT IT ALSO IN 1966 IN YOUR BOOK I NOTICED CHANGES BLACK CULTURE.

THE NOTION OF MUSIC TO LITERATURE, WHATEVER, IS THAT STILL TRUE TODAY?

>> I THINK SO.

WE'RE STILL FIGHTING THE SAME FIGHTS AND PROBLEMS THAT GAVE RISE TO BLACK POWER ARE STILL WITH US AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

I ACTUALLY THINK THAT IT'S IN SOMEWAYS THE CULTURAL LEGACY IS THE ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, REALLY CHANGED FOR GOOD.

AND IS -- YOU KNOW, REALLY BEEN IRREVERSIBLE BUT ALSO SAYING LOOK, WE CAN HAVE ASPIRATIONS FOR EDUCATION, PROFESSIONALLY, FOR ACHIEVEMENT OF DIFFERENT SORTS BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO HIDE OUR BLACKNESS IN THE PROCESS.

WE DON'T HAVE TO PROCESS OUR HAIR.

WE DON'T HAVE TO DRESS LIKE WHITE PEOPLE.

WE CAN HAVE OUR OWN, YOU KNOW, CULTURE AND THAT DOESN'T JUST EMULATE WHITE CULTURE.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE TRANSITION FOR EXAMPLE FROM MOTOWN AND R AND B WHERE BLACK FOLKS, IT'S GREAT MUSIC BUT DRESSING AND STRAIGHTENING THEIR HAIR AND TRYING TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, LOOK WHITE IN SOMEWAYS AND THE TRANSITION TO HIP-HOP.

IT WAS A REALIZATION THAT AMERICA WAS NOT MOVING VERY QUICKLY TOWARDS BEING A TRULY INTEGRATED SOCIETY SO HOW ARE BLACK FOLKS GOING TO THINK OF THEMSELVES AND MOVE AND LIVE AHEAD SIDE BY SIDE WITH WHITES BUT WITHIN THE ABSENCE OF TRUE AND TOTAL INTEGRATION?

I THINK THAT ASPECT OF BLACK POWER IS SOMETHING IT WAS REVOLUTIONARY AND CHANGED FOREVER AND THAT'S IN SOMEWAYS, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS THE MOST POSITIVE OUT COME OF THIS RADICAL SHIFT IN THE YEAR OF 1966.

>> MARK WHITAKER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE.