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The Arkansas Times and KAR FM 89.

And hello again everyone.

Thanks very much for being with us.

If the COVID-19 trend line in Arkansas continues to decline, the danger the virus continues to pose here as elsewhere, remains how to mitigate that danger when political support is dissipating, will update the clinical situation with couple of Arkansas doctors who've been on the front line from the start.

But first, the General Assembly, the legislative session that began almost three months ago, likely will be remembered as one of the most conservative.

In generations.

On guns, abortion, human ********* election law, the Republican majority has been on a roll and not always In Sync with the Republican governor and almost always completely out of sync with the Democratic minority joining us up.

Top representative Robin Lundstrum of Elm Springs and Democrat Keith Ingram of West Memphis, the Senate Minority Leader Mitch Lindstrom.

Let's begin with you, some of the most.

Controversial legislation of the pet of the session thus far has involved transgender individuals, particularly transgender youth.

You have been an advocate for all of that legislation.

It's been criticized as a solution in search of a problem.

Your response to that?

Well, I I would be mentally disagree.

I think we need to see our children as something to protect their treasure.

All of our children and I think it's extremely important when you talk about.

Putting chemical *** change drugs into a child.

That's a bad idea of what my bill actually proposes.

Just wait till there 18.

Provide all the health care that children need, but don't put a drug into a child.

That's first of all not intended for that.

And protect children to their 18.

It's a pretty simple actually bill, and it's very tightly crafted.

Unfortunately, a couple of groups put out that I was cutting off all healthcare, which I thought was extremely cruel.

We still have counseling in the bill health care in the bill.

It just says wait till you're 18 to make a big time decision.

Or audio is a little bit garbled there.

Miss lunch from so forgive me if I misinterpreted, but some of the groups that were in opposition include the clinical community medical community including the pediatricians.

Does that not speak?

What does that say about the bill?

I think they've made it more political than anything else.

Giving a child, puberty blockers and cross *** hormones right now is a very dangerous thing to do in adolescence.

I think making that political is is not a good idea.

We need to take care of children first.

The first thing of medicine is do no harm.

All I'm asking is that we let children grow up.

They do need to see their their doctors obviously.

So they need to go to the doctor.

They need to go to counseling.

But giving them hormones that stop puberty and cross *** hormones to a child.

That's that's not a good idea, so the the pediatricians, for example, to cite one discipline one specialty.

There they are politically motivated in their opposition.

I think this has gotten political I. I've also heard from a lot of pediatricians and clinical psychiatrists that say wait a second in 10 years.

We're going to be asking ourselves where were the adults?

Senator Ingram, your response.

You've been on the opposite side and on the South side of the Capitol.

Sure, I think that Robin revenue Lundstrom said it exactly right.

Where are the adults and where the adults why we would intervene between a parent and their child?

Every major Medical Association opposes this bill.

Anne.

We've made it political because it's been introduced.

This is not been a problem until legislation such as this type has been introduced, and that's what's made it political.

Not listening to science and listening to doctors.

Puberty blockers.

It's been used for 50 or 60 years with no problem whatsoever.

For females that might be children that might be reaching puberty at six or seven or eight years old.

That's a proven use of of that drug.

So puberty blockers are inherently have been proven to not be dangerous, but I think the biggest thing is, without it out, is the intervention between parents and their children and our job as legislators are to protect the most vulnerable.

An I can tell you from the testimony from the wonderful, eloquent testimony of Doctor Hutchison.

Who deals with gender issues here in Little Rock?

These are vulnerable kids and we need to be supporting them and their parents.

What about Miss Lundstrom would argue I suspect you would argue if she has not already in some of your colleagues did argue on the floor.

These are obviously life changing decisions and that someone under 18 is really a no position to make has not reached the level of maturity, for example that would be required of an individual to make such a momentous decision.

Is that your response?

Well, I think that I think that the delaying effect of pubic puberty.

The purpose is to allow someone.

There is 18 or older to make these decisions.

As far as I know there is not a single instance of of any *** change operation going on in Arkansas, and I think the ancillary damage that could be done.

I think that and I know represented lunchroom has disagreed, but I believe representative Deborah Ferguson is dead alone in that.

That this bill, this legislation that counseling services are considered healthcare and therefore medical services.

And they're going to be those would be prohibited under this bill well, Miss Lundstrom is in fact.

In fact is a legislative majority in Arkansas.

Are you practicing medicine?

Serin first of all this, the puberty blocker that he's referring to for a four year olds not included in this bill.

You need to read the bill.

Second of all.

Puberty blockers and cross *** hormones for a fourteen 1516 year old.

This is new medicine.

This is not even FDA approved.

United Kingdom just.

Decided no, we're not going to do this because this is not approved.

This is experimentation on children and 2nd we do interfere in a few things when it comes to parents.

You can't take a child home from the hospital without a seat belt.

You can't give a child alcohol.

Cigarettes became by cost.

Service costs are up.

Or change your name.

Rent a hotel room, rent something.

We do, set some parameters to protect children and I think experimenting on a child with cross *** hormone and puberty blockers.

In puberty is a bad idea and we are doing that now.

We have not done surgery but we have given puberty blockers and cross *** hormones to children in Arkansas.

And that's a bad idea at 1415 sixteen specially when you look at cardiovascular disease, cerebral vascular disease.

That's when they're doing bone density, bone growth.

That's a big growing time for adolescents, and we don't even have a good grasp of all the things that are going on when it looks when you look at brain development.

Kids are still growing.

Brains are still developing, and when you give cross *** hormones to a child at that age you're interfering with brain development, so this isn't something to be taken lightly.

I think you need to read the bill and look at the whole process.

Here we are interfering.

Anna puberty and growth process and we did not do that.

And all I'm saying is let's press the pause button for just a second.

And let kids grow up and protect kids.

They need to be taken care of.

I do want to move on to another issue and that is the leadership in both chambers.

Republican leadership in both chambers and Senator Ingram will start with you.

Has introduced an alternate hate crimes, but they don't.

It's not called a hate crimes bill, but it's plainly a substitute for the bill that your colleague, Mr Hendron has introduced.

Is that acceptable?

Do you think in your chamber or certainly into your caucus, the Democratic caucus?

We were made aware of the possibility of this legislation probably three weeks ago.

I would guess Ann as written, the caucus has declined to support it.

You know, it's we walk right up to the edge of a hate crime bill, but then we run away from the water when the tide comes in.

Apparently it it it's not going to be recognized nationally as a hate crimes bill, so.

Certainly the majority can pass it, but at this point as it is written, I don't think there will be any Democratic support in the Senate.

I missed one from your caucus in the House would certainly seem to have the votes for it if it is the support there.

I I don't know if this support will be there.

It's going to be something we're going to sit down and read bridges now seeing it, so it's hard to make.

An opinion are passed judgement on something that we're just now.

We've seen the bill filed yesterday at 1:00 o'clock, and so it's something that's going to be a must read this weekend, and.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm not going to pass judgment on something that I haven't had a chance to thoroughly study, but let me ask you this, should should gay lesbian Arkansans or transgender Arkansan should they be a protected class under any kind of weather?

Weather is called hate crimes Bill or the bill that Speaker Gilman and the Protem is introduced?

I don't think anybody should be a protected class.

We should have all Arkansans be treated equally and with respect I think anybody that comes here needs to know they're going to be treated with respect, and that's the most important thing we can do is our Kansas history.

Everybody with equal justice for all?

OK LAN.

One other issue that I want to get to and Senator will begin with you.

Plainly there is some discontent, and we've known this for some time with Doctor Romero as Secretary of Health, he's Acting Secretary now.

Apparently there going to be some hearings.

Confirmation hearings what's the status in your chamber?

Well, as you know, in rules yesterday they were, they requested.

The first time.

I guess that it my memory that we will ever have a hearing on a gubernatorial appointee.

I think it goes back to.

The the the non belief in science.

I mean I think they wanted to try to question whether the mask mandate was needed.

You know did we take the steps to meet the pandemic or not an?

I think that's the crux of the question.

I first became aware of this a few weeks ago when I received a call from the Governor's staff are asking if if I would support Doctor Romero's reappointment and.

Uh, it it sort of caught me off guard when we were asked because we sort of taking those things for granted in the Senate in the past to defer to the governor, but I suppose that that's what this is.

This is about.

So what time is lunch from over to you?

It is a Senate confirmation vote, but can you give us a sense of the of the test of the temperature towards senator up Doctor Romero in the group?

I I think he is respected.

I'm sure we're going to have disagreements on some things that's just part of life in Little Rock, but I think he is respected as a very competent and well educated man.

And I I've enjoyed my conversations with him.

I think he's been helpful on a couple of my bills.

I've called him about and he's provided some great information so.

Are you going to agree with everything?

Probably not.

But I will wait and see.

Well, is there any reason in your mind Muslims from that any justification?

Any reason why Doctor Romero should not be Secretary of Health?

I can't think of anything right now off the top of my head now, but I'm going to wait and listen to the hearings and let the Senate confirm.

But I think the governor tries to choose the best people possible.

Miss Lindstrom, senator Ingram.

Thank you very much for being part of the program.

Come back soon.

Thank you for having us absolutely back now with our update on Arkansas and Covid and where from here.

Returning to our program with our thanks.

As always, Doctor Cam Patterson, Chancellor of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and Doctor Joe Thompson, CEO of the Arkansas Center for Health Improvement gentlemen.

Again, thanks for coming aboard.

Doctor Thompson let me start with you, the governor, of course, lifted his mask.

Mandate effective April 1st.

Your board wasted no time.

Issuing a statement promptly, I think within 48 hours lifting of the mask mandate is not an all clear signal.

You want to pick it up from there.

Cheers to you, but you know, I, I think that we've never been in a pandemic like this and so unwinding it each each next step is a new step and with uncharted risks.

The Covid virus is still present in our state.

We know that some of the variants have now emerged in our in our state.

We know nationwide that the number of new cases is going up, not down.

There are some hotspots, the upper Midwest, the East Coast.

But cause of these variants.

So just because the state has lifted a mask mandate.

The guidelines are still in place that all individuals that are UN vaccinated in large groups in the public space should continue to protect yourselves with masking with distance and with hygiene, the things that we have used to get us to this point of being able to start to relax a little bit so it's not at all clear signal.

We called our board called for business leaders, community leaders, faith based leaders, school boards to continue the mask mandates at the local level.

Doctor Patterson you Doc Thompson just mentioned the variance now regardless of 1's immunization status, whether you receive the injections or not.

What do these variant?

How do these variants alter the equation, particularly those who have not been well for both groups?

Those who have and those who haven't been immunized?

Well, the variants are a concern in the variants are concerned for a couple of reasons.

One is that it may make a COVID-19 infection worse that you're that if you get infected that you're more likely to require hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19, it may make it more likely that you could be infected in the 1st place that it increases the probability that you will get an infection and variance.

I may make an individual resistant to the salutory the positive effects of the vaccine.

The parents can do any of those three things, and the concern that we have right now is with the virus still so prevalent in our communities and with the variance making their way across the country.

That within a state where we have only 30% of the population, even with a single dose of the vaccine, the risk.

Not these variants will take over and potentially override the impact of vaccinations, puts us at a very dicey moment in the pandemic, a dicey moment.

Well now the trend line has been seems to be have been down in recent weeks, yet there is clearly concerned continues to be clear concerning the clinical community about a fourth surge.

In this virus, Doctor Patterson.

Yeah, well, you know we remain concerned about that and and certainly variance would be a big driver of that.

Keep in mind that where did these variants come from?

These variants come from mutations in the viral sequence.

Those mutations happen every time the virus replicates and is transmitted from one individual to another.

So even if the rates of infection right now are down, the fact that the virus is still being transmitted in our communities means that the potential for more.

Potentially more dangerous variance persists until we get the rate of transmission low enough that the probability of new variance arises goes down close to zero, we still remain at risk or additional COVID-19 surges well, and both of you gentlemen are continued to be concerned about as Doctor Patterson just mentioned, Doctor Thompson will go to the comparatively low vaccination rate in Arkansas.

Thus far we have a lot more doses than we have.

Arms were sleeves being rolled up.

We are making progress and we are truly as Doctor Patterson said in a race, a race to get our vaccination levels and protections up against the Covid virus that is going to continue to mutate and potentially develop more threatening strains.

I would also caution Steve, you know we saw the peaked increase at Thanksgiving followed by the Holidays, followed by New Years as people interacted and then we had that that Spike in January.

We just had spring break last week, so I would anticipate the potential uptick of the next week or 10 days.

Because we had more people traveling, more people interacting in a less protected way.

Both doctors, I had a physician friend relate the other day that his concern, his biggest concern regarding Covid now was covid fatigue.

People are simply weary of wearing mask.

Their weary of social distancing, they want to go out and they are lowering their guard.

Doctor Patterson.

Yeah, that that's a problem that we're seeing across our communities, and it's a real issue, which is why it's so important that we continue to speak in a unified fashion.

It's Doctor Thompson said about the positive impact of masking, social distancing and hygiene.

We've got to stay on that message, and I'm concerned that as we back away from a mask mandate, that people will assume that it is safe.

It is not safe from a COVID-19 perspective in our communities in Arkansas right now.

Had you were you able to have your way with that mask mandate at the state level continue?

Steve Allen go ahead Kim.

Well, I I'll say this, we have data that demonstrates that masking is beneficial and we have data that demonstrates that masking mandates are beneficial.

What we don't have data on is the right way to unwind this, and if it were me, I would say let's.

Be air on the side of being cautious and safe.

Doctor comma would just add.

I think the next 60 to 90 days are critical if we can keep our defenses up while we get people vaccinated, we can break the back of transmission of this virus and we can have a much more normal enjoyable second part of the summer.

If we lose our ground now.

If we don't continue to be able to make advances to get that protection in place through the vaccine over the next couple of three months, we do have a risk and therefore.

My board called out for every decision maker leader across the state to really try to stay in line, hold the line, let's continue our masking, continue our efforts and let's encourage everyone to take the vaccine when they are offered.

It continues to be a concern also.

Well, let me go to this first because I read from Doc Thompson one of your board members passed along a clipping, underscoring, yet again, the aggravated risk to a heightened risk to obese Arkansans, and we have an abundance of them.

We have used the transparency initiatives database.

All payer claims database of diagnosis, obesity, diabetes, CEO PD, heart disease, immunocompromised states either because you have an arthritic issue or your own chemotherapy.

Probably more than half of Arkansans are at high risk for bad outcomes if they get covid.

In addition, we're seeing that people who get covid about a third have long term effects, brain fog, stamina issues, heart problems.

This is not an infection.

You want to get, so we need to maintain our protections.

We need to gain high levels of vaccination and we need to work together 'cause we're all dependent upon each other for our success and Doctor Patterson.

Your rooms.

Your awards are have been anyway crowded with individuals that with covid with who have comorbidities.

1st for sure you know that's those are the individuals who get COVID-19 and become the sickest as a consequence of COVID-19.

One concern that we have is that if we don't really stamp down the virus if we go from this being a pandemic to this being endemic.

Meaning it's always around always being transmitted at, you know maybe a lower level than now but but it's not really brought under control.

Then these viruses find the weakest individuals in our society, find people have poor access to care, find people who have comorbidities, and they're going to be the ones who suffer in those communities are going to be the ones who suffer just as been the case with HIV.

If this moves into an endemic status, are we moving into communities of color at the rate we should?

Are we showing improvement in penetrating communities of color with immunization?

Steve, I think there are efforts there, but we can never do enough.

I mean low income communities, communities of color have been impacted the most by this virus, and they're also the ones who need the most assistance to get the vaccines.

Many don't have transportation, they don't have the access or regular interactions with the clinical system, so we really do need all of our community leaders.

Faith based leaders, clinical leaders to continue to try to take the vaccine into those communities, not make the individuals from those communities have to come to the vaccine.

Well, the problem can be even more acute.

Doctor Patterson, as I understand it for some of my reading in rural portions of the state where access is even more limited than than certainly that in urban areas.

Oh for sure.

You know there are plenty of places in our state where it's a 45 minute drive just to the nearest pharmacy, much less to you know, full service health care provider and we've taken on some of the challenges are self at you AMS creating mobile vaccination units.

Yesterday we opened a clinic at the Seven Center in collaboration with Arkansas Blue Cross Blue Shield in North Little Rock.

But Doctor Thompson's absolutely right.

You know, we have to be active in going to these communities especially.

Because not only are they challenged from the perspective of access, but there's also potential distrust issue with the health care system that we have to overcome, especially in an issue like over 19 where frankly, there's been so much disinformation we've got to go above and beyond to get to every single Arkansan we can't allow.

One of the three million Arkansans to fall through the cracks here.

The end and finally to the politics of health care.

Your colleague, your fellow physician Doctor Romero, the acting Secretary of Health.

There is some open political pushback against Doctor Romero.

Doctor Thompson.

Let me start with you.

Should he be confirmed as Secretary of Health.

I think without question, Doctor Romero has been leading the state advising the governor, safeguarding Arkansans and should be confirmed.

Yeah, I think the important thing here Steve is this is a pandemic.

This is a new viral threat to humanity that we have never experienced before.

At least those of us that are less than 100 plus years old.

And this is a threat.

And with that threat took actions that were not popular and so it's not surprising that we have some political discourse.

But I think as we move out of this we need to learn what worked.

We need to have dialogue and discussion so that when this happens again and it will then we have less division and we can act in a more unified way to avoid unnecessary deaths that unfortunately we experienced Doctor Patterson with few seconds remaining.

I'll give him to you.

Doctor Romero has been the Chief of Pediatric Infectious disease here at UMS remains a faculty member.

He's nationally recognized.

I think he's the right person for that job, and we're lucky to have him there, and I hope that he gets sent confirmation.

Doctor Patterson, doctor Thompson were simply out of time, but we thank you as always for yours and come back soon.

Thank you alright and thank you as always for joining us.

We'll see you next week.