THE UNITED STATES DEMAND TWICE WEEKLYÑiÑi REPORTSÑiçóÑi ONÑiñrU SINGERçó2aLD THEY BECOME A ROYAL GLOBALLYçóÑiçóçóÑçóñr;oR█'c9 WORLD.

BY 1969, HEK IS BEAUTIFUL, BLACK IDENTITY THAT WE SHOULD LOVE OURSELVES AND HE TOLD THIS TO BLACK MEN AND WOMEN AND ARGUED THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND BLACK POWER STRUGGLE WAS A STRUGGLE ABOUT LOVING EACH OTHER AND OURSELVES.

>> WE'LL FIND OUT WHERE HE WAS IN THE SPECTRUM OF ORGANIZERS AND LEADERSHIP.

I ASKED THAT FOR A REASON SINCE I WANTED TO KNOW, KIM, WHO WAS STOKLEY CARMICHAEL TO YOU?

>> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING PEOPLE HAVE IN THEIR HEADS WHO HE IS.

MOST OR MANY PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY YOUNGER PEOPLE, NEVER HEARD OF HIM, THE FACT HE WAS A HUGE ROCK STAR IN THE '60s AND '70s AND NOW HAS GRADUALLY DIMINISHED.

I ASKED MY STUDENTS JUST THE OTHER DAY, WEÑiÑi FINISHED READr MALCOLM X AND I ASKED HIM ABOUT STOKLEY CARMICHAEL.

THEY'VE HEARD OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, MALCOLM X. THEY HAVE AÑi TRUNCATED, FALSE VIEWçó OFçó MALCOLM Xçó BUT!CTÑD ZeCRDç?$JtÑiÑ)█óç JOSEPH'S BOOK WAS MORE THAN MY STUDENTS.

I KNEW BLACK POWER AND HE WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE BLACK PANTHER MOVEMENT.

I HAD NO BREADTH OF HIS LIFE AND THE IDEOLOGICAL ROAD HE TRAVELED AND THE EXTEND AND HIS ASSOCIATION WITH PAN-AFRICANISM.

GENERATIONALLY, I THINK HE'S BEEN LOST.

THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

I HOPE THIS BOOK WILL -- >> JUST FOR POINT OF CLARIFICATION, YOUR CLASS IS RACIALLY MIXED?

>> WELL, NO.

THERE ARE TWO STUDENTS OF COLOR, SO -- BUT THEY HADN'T HEARD OF HIM EITHER.

SAME QUESTION TO YOU, WHO WAS STOKLEY CARMICHAEL?

>> I THINK ABOUT STOKLEY CARMICHAEL, NOT ONLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN LEADER FROM THE CARIBBEAN, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO IS -- SOMEONE WHO PUT MOVEMENTS TOGETHER BY HIS PRESENCE AND WORDS.

>> IS THIS WHAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HIM BEFORE YOU READ THEñri BOOK?

>> NO.çó WHAT DID YOU THINK BEFORE YOU READ THE BOOK?

>> BEFORE I READ THEçó BOOK, AS KIM SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU THOUGHT OF HIM AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN LEADER WHOÑiÑi COINEDÑiçó THE (i NOW,çóçóÑ THE TIME, WHICH WAS A BLACK HATER, THAT'S HOW HE WAS VIEWED, HE WAS ACTUALLY SOMEONE WHO TAUGHT, WHO TRIED TO INSTILL IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS TO LOVE THEMSELVES AT A TIME WHEN SELF-HATE WAS SO RAMPANT IN TERMS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS' PERCEPTIONS OF THEMSELVES.

BLACK POWER BECAME -- BLACK WAS CONNOTED AS WHOLLY NEGATIVE IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD, SYMBOLICALLY ACROSS THE BOARD.

HE BASICALLY SAID, LOOK AT ME.

I'M NOT AN UGLY PERSON.

HE WAS VERY PROUD OF HIMSELF AND LIKED HIMSELF TREMENDOUSLY.

SO WHAT STOKLEY CARMICHAEL WAS TO ME, PRIOR TO READING THIS BOOK, WAS SOMEONE BASICALLY WHO COINED THIS TERM, WHO INSTILLED IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS A SENSE OF PRIDE.

BLACK POWER WAS A WAY OF VIEWING ONE'S SELF, SELF-EXAMINATION.

>> WHAT WAS BLACK POWER TO STOKLEY CARMICHAEL?

>> IT WAS RADICAL, BLACK, POLITICAL, CULTURAL SELF-DETERMINATION.

THAT'S WHAT HE DEFINED IT OUT.

HE THOUGHT INITIALLY BLACK POWER WOULD HELP BLACK AMERICANS ACHIEVE RADICAL DEMOCRACY.

HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE HAVING POLITICAL CONTROL INITIALLY.

OVER TIME, BY THE LATE '60s, HAS TO BEÑ HE BECOMES A CRITIC OF DEMOCRACY,çó AN ADVOCATE OF A PANAFRICAN REVOLUTION, BUT WHAT'S INTERESTEDçóçóçóÑçó ABOU█ MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

HE WAS ARRESTED AT 19 YEARS OLD IN 1961.

HE GOES TO HOWARD UNIVERSITY AND BROCK SCIENCE, THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS HIGH SCHOOL IN NEW YORK CITY.

HE'S ARRESTED SEVERAL TIMES, GOES TO MISSISSIPPI EVERY SUMMER.

BOB MOSES, ONE OF THE GENIUSES OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, ONE OF THE LEADING ORGANIZES OF THE STUDENT NONVIOLENT COMMITTEE, BECOMES STOKELY'S HE ROWS AND SOAKLY CHANGED HIS MAJOR TO PHILOSOPHY BECAUSE OF MOSES.

HE'S ALSO SELF-DEFERENTIAL.

STOKELY WAS THE KIND OF GUY WOMEN THOUGHT WAS ATTRACTIVE AND MEN WANTED TO BE AROUND, TOO.

THAT WAS A UNIQUE, TOO.

>> MEN WANT TO BE HIM AND WOMEN WANT TO BE WITH HIM.

I ACTUALLY WANTED TO PICK UP ON THE POINT ABOUT HIS CLOSE RELATIONSHIP AND RESPECT FOR DR.

KING EVEN WHEN THEIR POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES DIVERGE AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

I'M OPENED WOOERING WHAT YOU -- WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS, PART OF THE REASON HIS LEGACY HAS NOT BEEN AS PROLIFIC OR INSTILLEDçó AS THEçóÑi]/>ÑiÑ- HAVE THIS THING IN OUR SOCIETY WHERE WE HAVE TO SET UPçóçóÑi DUALITIES, AND I THINK HISREFUS] INADVERTENTLY -- DIDN'T ALLOW US TO CATEGORIZE HIM SO EASILY.

>> THAT HAPPENED WITH THE ARCHITECT OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS,çó MARCH ON WASHINGTON, WELL KNOWN STRATEGIZE BoSSEÑi WANTEDçó TOçi THE MOVEMENTñr!CND THDó NOTIONçó ANy@]; THE CONTEXT OF A NON-VIOLENT CIVIL RIGHTS PARADIGM WHICH WAS VIEWED AS ANATHEMA.

WHAT THEY SAY IN STOKLEY CARMICHAEL PRETTY MUCH WHAT THE F.B.I., J. EDGAR HOOVER SAW IN STOKLEY CARMICHAEL, IN A BROAD SENSE, AS SOMEONE WHO WAS DANGEROUS, WHO ENDANGERED THEIR POSITION, THEIR STAKE OUT ON THE MOVEMENT.

I'M EVEN TALKING ABOUT 1966.

>> I'M SAYING, WHAT I THINK WHAT PENIEL BROUGHT OUT IS STOKELY WAS AN EMBRACER OF NONVIOLENCE.

>> I AGREE WITH WHAT PHILLIP IS SAYING BUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE LATE '50s, EARLY '60s, I WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET WHAT AN IMPORTANT ORGANIZER HE IS AND HIS TRADITIONS.

BOB WAS OPENLY GAY, MARGINALIZED FOR THAT.

BYRE IS ONE OF HIS MENTORS.

HE IS TAKING THIS SOCIALIST AND WHITE AND JEWISH LEFT TRADITION.

MOST HIS CLASS MAYS ARE JEWISH AMERICANS.

HE'S ONE OF EIGHT OR NINE BLACK KIDS IN A CLASS OF 300 IN 1960 WHICH INCLUDES JEFF GREENFIELD AND ALL THESE LUMINAIRES, AND STOKELY IS NOT ONLY THE MOST POPULAR STUDENT, HE IS BROUGHT TO THE HOMES OF WHITE LIBERALS AND LEFTIES.

HE REMINISCES HE WAS THEIR CHOCOLATE FRED ASTAIRE.

WHEN HE GOES TO HOWARD, HE EMBRACES THE BLACK MOVEMENT.

WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE HERE WHO HAVE MISSISSIPPI AND MEMPHIS ROOTS.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT MISSISSIPPI, HE LOVES POOR BLACK PEOPLE IN THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA.

>> AND THE BOOK IS FULL OF LITTLE TIDBITS ABOUT STOKEM[ THAT AREÑ HOW AT HOME AND COMFORTABLE HE WAS WITH THE POOR, YOU KNOW, WORKING PEOPLE OF THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA AND HOW MUCH HE LOVED IT AND HOW HE WAS ENRICHED BY THAT BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT HIS CULTURAL HERITAGE IMMEDIATELY.

>> AND HE PROPERLY COULD BE DEFINED AS AN ELITE.

>> HE COULD GET IN THERE WITH THEM AND LOVED THEM AND EMBRACED THEM.

HE WAS A CHARS MARKET AND WARM PERSON, SEEMS LIKE.

>> HIS COMFORT LEVEL ACROSS THE BOARD WAS EXEMPLARY AND HELPED HIM BRING TOGETHER MOVEMENTS.

BY THAT, HE WAS VERY, VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE NEED FOR BLACK POWER AS HE STARTED TO EVOLVE, BUT I'M THINKING -- I KEEP THINKING ABOUT '66 WHEN THE VIETNAM WAR WAS REALLY ESCALATING, AND THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THE DRAFT, OF COURSE, WOULD -- WOULD NOT SIMPLY EFFECT AS YOU POINTED OUT IN THE BOOK THE WORKING AND WELL WELFARE CLASS BUT THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY OF YOUNG WHITE KIDS BEING DRAFTED.

AND WHEN HE SPOKE OUT AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR AND THE IMPACT IT WAS HAVING ON BLACK COMMUNITIES AND HE USED THE UNIVERSAL SENSE OF BLACK COMMUNITIES AROUND THE WORLD, ALL OF A SUDDEN WHITE STUDENTS WERE LISTENING.

THEY WERE LISTENING AT BERKELEY AT THE GREEK THEATER, THEY WERE LISTENING ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS MOVEMENT THAT STARTED TO PERK PERCOLATE STARTED TO TAKE OFF AND THEY FOUND IN STOKLEY CARMICHAEL SOMEONE THEY COULD RELATE TO EVEN THOUGH STOKLEY CARMICHAEL WAS NOT WHOLLY EMBRACIVE OF THE NEW -- >> OR WELCOMING.

YEAH.

ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MAKE CLEAR IS YOU CALL HIM A BRIDGE BETWEEN MALCOLM AND MARTIN, BUT FOLLOWING UP ON WHAT YOU SAID, HE REALLY HAD A BRIDGE EARLY ON, CERTAINLY, IN HIS APPROACH ON HOW HE WANTED TO DO POLL SIX, RADICAL DEMOCRACY WASçó TOÑi BRr FOLKS IN.

>> AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT BRINGING FOLKS IN, ONE OF THE WAYS Ze█ DOES THAT IS WE TALKçói ABOUT '66.

BY '67, THEççÑçó MEREDITHÑiÑiñr█ INTEGRATE THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI.

CONTINUE.

>> AND HE SHOT ON A ONE-MAN MARCH IN 1966.

AND STOKELY DECIDED TO UNLEASH THE TERM BLACK POWER ON THAT MARCH AND USED THE MARCH TO RADICALIZE PEOPLE IN THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA.

KING IS UPSET OVER THE TERM BLACK POWER BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENT CONNOTATION.

STOKELY DISAGREES.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THOSE TWO GENTLEMEN IN THE SPRING OF 1967, HEADLINE, NEXT WEEK IS THE 47th ANNIVERSARY, HEADLINED THE BIGGEST ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATION IN HISTORY AT THE UNITED NATIONS.

BENJAMIN SPOCK AND HARRY BELAFONTE IS THERE AND STOKELY SPEAKS BEFORE KING AND CALLS THE WAR IN VIETNAM A RACIST WAR.

THE GOVERNOR WAS EVEN ANGRIER ABOUT STOKELY'S ANTI-WAR ACTIVISM AND LINKING BLACK POWER WITH THE CRITICISM OF ECONOMIC EQUALITY, ANTI-IMPERIALISM, AND THE CONNECTION BETWEEN STOKELY AND KING.

EVEN THOUGH THEY DISAGREED ON BLACK POWER THEY AGREED ON THE WAR IN VIETNAM AND ANTI-WAR POVERTY.

>> NOW THAT WE HAVE A BETTER PICTURE OF WHO STOKELY WAS AND HOW HE WAS HOPING TO BRIDGE THROUGH MANY COMMUNITIES, BLACK COMMUNITIES AND OTHERS TO GET TO THE KIND OF DEMOCRACY THAT HE THOUGH AND GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, WHAT DOES HE SAY NOW TO THESE GENERATIONSçmK NOW?

WHAT DOES HISçó LEGACY --Ñi BEC3 THATçó WAS YOUR WHOLEçóçó POINTi WRITING█i THIS BOOK.

YOU WANTED TO TAKE HISçóÑ LEGACY ANDçó SAY THIS ISçó WHATx WELL-LIVED LIFE IS IN THE 21st CENTURY.

I DO A JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN KWAME TOUR RAY AND BARACK OBAMA.

OBAMA IS BLOWN AWAY AND BAFFLED.

OBAMA EMBRACES THE EARLY CULTURE WITH JOHN LEWIS AND OBAMA WANTS TO BE AN ORGANIZER.

BY THE TIMES HE SEES KWAME, HE'S SORT OF BAFFLED.

MY ARGUMENT IN THE BOOK IS BOTH ARE EXAMPLES OF WELL-LIVED LIVES.

IT'S NOT JUST OBAMA AND HARVARD AND OXFORD AND COLUMBIA, IT'S HOWARD UNIVERSITY.

WE ALL HAVE SEEN SHOTGUN SHACKS IN ALABAA THE PEOPLE DAY TO DAY, AND IT'S ALSO NOT BEING A FINANCIALçóÑI█ó SUCCESS.

STOKLEY CARMICHAEL AND KWAMEçóç█ TOUREY COULD MILLIONAIRE MANYçó TIMES OVERç SPOKE EVEN THOUGH IT MEANT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE POPULAR.

>> WHO ARE TODAY'S STOKELYS?

ONCE AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO DEFINE STOKELY AGAIN BEFORE YOU CAN SAY WHO IS TODAY'S STOKELY.

I WOULD SAY THAT -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK I FOUND ABSOLUTELY VERY INCREDIBLE ABOUT STOKLEY CARMICHAEL WAS WHEN HE BASICALLY PUSHED OUT AGAINST INDIVIDUALISM WITHIN BLACK COMMUNITIES AND, BY THAT, YOU OFTEN HEAR AFRICAN-AMERICANS SAY, WELL, IF YOU BUY MY PRODUCT, YOU ARE ENDORSING BLACKNESS.

WHAT STOKELY CARMICHAEL SAID IS, NO, YOU'RE ENDORSING INDIVIDUALISM, AND WITH INDIVIDUALS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A BLACKNESS.

HE VERY MUCH PUSHED OUT AGAINST THAT.

WHEN YOU ASK WHO ARE TODAY'S STOKELYS, YOU HAVE TO ASK WHO BASICALLY EMBRACES BLACKNESS IN A SENSE THAT IS ADVANTAGEOUS TO BLACK PEOPLE ACROSS THE BOARD.

SO YOU ASK ME WHO IS STOKLEY CARMICHAEL, I WOULD HAVE SAID THOSE WHO ARE KIN TO STOKLEY CARMICHAEL WOULD HAVE BEEN NELSON MANDEL LARKS FOR EXAMPLE.

IF YOU ASK ME WHO -- BECAUSE IT WAS A UNIVERSALITY.

ALSO, IT WAS AN UNSELFISHNESS IN WHICH HE EMBRACED HIS BLACKNESS.

IT WAS NOT OPPORTUNISTIC.

>> I'M ASKING THE SAME QUESTION DOWN THE LINE.

>> I HAVE BEEN SITTING HERE THINKING AND CAN'T COME UP WITH AN ANSWER AND I THINK THAT'S A SAD THING.

I MEAN, CAR MICHAEL WAS NOT PERFECT, AND I THINK PENIEL'S POINT ABOUT HIM BEING SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER, HE DIDN'T QUITE DO THAT AT THEÑiÑiçó END.A3 SOçó THAT'SçóÑiñr PROBLEMATIC.

WHAT I THINK WE CAN LEARN TODAY FROM STOKLEY CARMICHAEL IS THE WILLINGNESS -- MUCH LIKEçóçóÑúLj READ, TO IMMERSE HIMSELF IN IDEAS AND IDEOLOGY AND TO KEEP GROWING, ALTHOUGH HE GOT A LITTLE STAGNANT TOWARDS THE END THERE, IS SOMETHING WE CAN LEARN AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH WAS, PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE.

AND I THINK WE DON'T HAVE TOO MANY RADICAL -- AND BY RADICAL I SIMPLY MEAN WILLING TO OVERTURN THE PREVAILING STRUCTURE, TO CHALLENGE IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE STOKELYS.

I CAN'T THINK OF ONE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

>> I WOULD SAY WE HAVE CONTEMPORARY STOKELYS AND KWAMES.

IT'S THE PEOPLE FIGHTING AGAINST MASS INCARCERATION.

WE'VE HAD THEM ON OUR SHOW.

THESE ARE COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS.

THEY'RE ORGANIZERS.

WE HAVE A FABULOUS NAACP HERE.

>> IS THERE ANYBODY WHO RISES TO THAT LEVEL WHO CAN CAPTURE THE YOUNG PEOPLE'S IMAGINATION?

>> FOR OUR TIME, CARMICHAEL, MALCOLM X, ELLA BAKER, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT OF HISTORICAL TRAJECTORY.

THEY ARE WATERSHED FIGURES BECAUSE THE WORLD IS BEING LIBERATED AT THE SAME TIME AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE LEADING IN A WAY THAT GLOBAL LIBERATION -- THE EXAMPLE WE SET HERE.

SO THAT'S HOW THEY WALK ON TO THE WORLD STAGE.

SO I WOULD PUT DR.

KING AND MALCOLM AND STOKELY ON THE SAME GLOBAL STAGE AS GANDHI AND MANDELA.

THIS IS NOT THE MINOR LEAGUE.

THIS IS A VERY, VERY -- YOU KNOW, VERY UNIQUE GROUP OF PEOPLE.

>> RIGHT.

CAPITALISM CHANGED, STATE-SPONSORED VIOLENCE AGAINST GRASSROOTS PEOPLE CHANGED.

LOOK, WE DIDN'T HAVE 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN JAIL WHEN STOKLEY CARMICHAEL WAS DOING THIS KIND OF ACTIVISM.

SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

I THINK WE HAVE THE SAME KIND OF SPIRIT.

I AGREE, DO WE HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF VISIBLE KIND OF POLITICAL ACTIVIST THAT WE DID IN THE '60s?,ç NO, DOESN'TÑiçó9+á3b>ó THATÑi TE NOT HERE.

>> AND MYñxiçóoZiçóÑi QUESTION E PEOPLE, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S Açó WATERSHED MOMENT IN TiMY OUT OF THE MOVEmE7T,çó RIGHT?I3 ISÑiÑ THEY'RE NOT CREATING IT SO MUCH AS THEY ARE LEADING.

AND SO THE QUESTION IS DO WE LACK THAT NOW TODAY IN THE -- >> WELL, CAPITALISM IS PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

PRESIDENT OBAMA WOULD BE BETTER IF THERE WAS A STOKLEY CARMICHAEL, IF THERE WAS A MARTIN LUTHER KING.

THESE COMPARISONS BETWEEN OBAMA AND L.B.J., L.B.J.

CAN GET THINGS DONE BECAUSE HE IS RIDING TOWARD THE HEIGHT OF HISTORY AND THE BOTTOM IS PUSHING HIM.

WE NEED COUNTERPOINTS.

ARE THOSE PEOPLE PHYSICALLY ALIVE?

I THINK SO.

DO THEY HAVE THE SAME PLATFORM AS STOKLEY CARMICHAEL AND KWAME WITH BLACK POWER?

NO.

>> I COULD SEE INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD SEE THEMSELVES KIN TO THAT.

CORNELL WEST MIGHT SEEÑ INÑi HISçóÑiçóççÑçó FRANCHISE.

AGAINSTw3çóç APPROACH TO CHANGE IN THEçóPa&C& INEFFECTIVE.

ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT IN THIS CONTEXT AND YOU TALKED ABOUT IT IS WORLDWIDE CONNECTIVENESS, AND YOU HAVE SOME OF THAT TODAY, BUT NOT IN THE SAME WAY, AND NOT IN THE SAME WAY AT ALL.

EVEN THOUGH, IRONICALLY, WE'RE MORE CONNECTED BY THE INTERNET THAN WE'VE EVER BEEN, YOU HAVE A GREATER CONNECTEDNESS IN MANY WAYS IN THE 1960s, THE PERIOD OF DECOLONIZATION USHERED IT IN, OH, WE'RE PART OF THIS MOVEMENT.

THIS MOVEMENT CREATED IN STOKE STOKE AND LATER IN KWAME KILPATRICK -- IN STOKLEY CARMICHAEL AND LATER CALMY, A SINCE OF UNREALITY.

A SINCE OF UNREALITY HE HAD IN HIS VIEW OF AFRICA.

(ARGUING) HE WAS IDEALISTIC.

THERE WAS A GOAL HE WANTED TO ACHIEVE.

BUT THE AFRICA HE SAW AT THE TIME UNDER SIEGE FROM COLONIALISM FROM PORTUGAL AND -- >> BUT LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION -- >> ONE THING I'LL SAY ABOUT THE ROMANTICIZATION, I THINK IT'S COMPLICATED.

PART OF HIM FEELS THERE IS A REVOLUTIONARY DESTINY ABOUT AFRICA.

BUT HE'S LIVING IN GUINEA FOR 30 YEARS WHERE IT'Sñr TOUGH THEÑiñr LIGHTS ON.

(ARGUING) >> I WANT TO ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEENé& TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THEçóÑi%g5 SAW.

WERE THERE DEFICITS TO THIS AND WHAT IS THE IMPACT TODAY?

IS THAT WHY WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE SAME KIND OF COMMITTED ORGANIZER HE WAS IN SOME WAYS?

YOU'VE MENTIONED THERE ARE OTHERS.

>> WELL, I THINK ALL SOCIAL MOVEMENTS HAVE DEFICITS.

I THINK BLACK POWER HAD DEFICITS AND CIVIL RIGHTS DID, TOO.

I THINK BY THE TIME HE'S A REVOLUTIONARY PAN-AFRICANIST, HE HAS A VERY SPECIFIC POLITICAL LINE.

>> OF THE AFRICAN LEADERS.

YES.

PRESIDENTS OF GHANA AND GUINEA RESPECTIVELY.

HE'S ALSO MEETING KABROW AND REVOLUTIONARIES AND WE HAVE A CAPE VERDEAN COMMUNITY HERE AND HE'S MEETING WITH THESE FOLKS.

I WANT TO STRESS REVOLUTION IS NOT JUST A FANTASY IN THE LATE '60s AND EARLY '70s IN AFRICA, IT'S REAL.

NELSON MANDELA -- IT'S REAL.

THE PIT FALLS ARE GOING FROM BEING A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER INTO BEING A POLITICAL IDEALOG.

STOKLEY CARMICHAEL HAD PROVOCATIVE, BRILLIANT QUEST OM ONEÑiçó HAS ALL THE ANSWERS.

SO THERE ARE LIMITS.

>> WE SAW THAT DEFICIT IN MISSISSIPPI, WHILEçó HE'S TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY, ALL THE ORGANIZING HAD BEEN GOING IN MISSISSIPPI ONçó AÑiçói SUFFERING, AND PEOPLEçó AREÑi BECOMING DISCOURAGED.çóÑiÑiçóçó] >> THAT'S RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S A LONG DAY.

I THINK HE GOT THAT IT WAS A LONG DAY AND HE UNDERSTOOD IT AND, BY THE WAY, EVEN AS HE -- BEFORE HE'S TRANSFERRED OVER TO BEING THAT SORT OF IDEALOG AT THE END, HE DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS AN OPTIMIST.

HE ANSWERED THE FOUND, READY FOR THE REVOLUTION?

>> YOU POINTED OUT, WHAT HAS TO PLAY A LARGER ROLE IN TERMS OF BEING ACKNOWLEDGED AND THAT IS LOOKING THEOUT WARE WHILE AFRICAN LEADERS IN AFRICA -- >> WELL, SOME PEOPLE QUESTION A MORAL FAULT -- AND WE'LL GO ONLINE AND CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUTÑi IT.

>> YEAH, BUT IÑi Té-THE CONTRADE STARTING TO PERK LATE AT THAT TIME.

THE LARGER CONTRADICTION WAS, OF COURSE, OF THE,çó AGAIN,ç█?>óf=D >> HE HAD ALREADY MADE A FOIL.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT WAS HARD TO SEE CONTINUEDICTIONS HAPPENING WITHIN AFRICA ITSELF.

AFRICAN LEADERSçóçóÑi THEMSELVEE CRUSHED.

>> █Nmi THING I'LL SAY, WHAT WEó NEED TOñrçó REMEMBERç LOST SIGHT OF THIS,Ñi TOO,çó= LOCAL ORGANIZER FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS.

WHEN YOU THINK BECAUSE HE WAS ORGANIZING HIGH SCHOOL, SO THE LOCAL ORGANIZING THAT STOKLEY CARMICHAEL DID, I CAN CONSISTENTLY SAY HE'S -- ♪♪ >> TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION SEE, SEE PAST EPISODES OR DISCOVER NEW STORIES, VISIT BASICBLACK.ORG.

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