THESE DAYS WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORD "IMGRANT," YOU ARE LIKELY TO THINK OF SOMEONE FROM A LATIN COUNTRY.

IN REALITY, THE BIGGEST NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS IN THE BOSTON AREA ARE FROM AFRICA AND THE CARIBBEAN AND THEY ARE PROUD CITIZENS.

NEXT ON "BASIC BLACK," BECOMING BLACK AMERICANS.

( theme song playing ) OUR PANEL TONIGHT, PINEAL JOSEPH, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY.

SAMUEL GEBRU, KALLIE CROFTEN, WGBH RADIO.

EVANDRO CARVALHO, AND KIM MCLAREN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF WRITING, PUBLISHING, EMERSON COLLEGE.

PLEASE VISIT wgbh.org/basicblack TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE CONTINUE TO THINK OF WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD "IMMIGRANT, ARE PEOPLE FROM LATIN COUNTRIES.

IT JUST AUTOMATICALLY GOES TO LATINO.

I THINK IT'S A SURPRISE FOR THEM THAT THERE ARE THE NUMBERS AND THE GROWING NUMBERS OF AFRICANS AND FOLKS FROM THE CARIBBEAN WHO HAVE MORE THAN DOUBLED IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS AND ACROSS THE NATION, WE'RE NOW TALKING 1.8 IMMIGRANTS FROM THESE COUNTRIES.

THE IMMIGRATION REFORM WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE TIME AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET IT THROUGH CONGRESS REALLY INVOLVES PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

WE JUST DON'T HEAR ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT IF I START WITH YOU, SAMUEL AND YOU EVANDRO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION ABOUT THE NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS AND WHO YOU ARE?

>> WHEN YOU THINK OF IMMIGRANT, A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST ASSUME MEXICO OR SOMETHING AND IT'S AER ARE MISGUIDED PERCEPTION OF WHAT IMMIGRATION IS OR WHO IMMIGRANTS ARE.

COMING FROM AFRICA, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN YOUR LANGUAGE AND CULTURE.

PEOPLE SOMETIMES PERCEIVE YOU AS COMING IN TO STEAL MY JOB OR SOMETHING.

NOT SO MUCH IN MASSACHUSETTS.

I THINK THIS STATE IS A BIT MORE ACCEPTING AND PROGRESSIVE ON IMMIGRATION, WHEREAS OTHER STATES ARE PROBABLY LESS WELCOMING TO AFRICAN OR CARIBBEAN IMMIGRANTS.

>> SAME QUESTION TO YOU, EVANDRO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION?

>> WHEN YOU SEE TV, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BORDER PATROLLING AND ALL OF THAT, SO I THINK THE FOCUS BECOMES ON LATIN AMERICA.

BUT AS YOU SAID THE REALITY IS MUCH MORE BROADER.

SO I THINK THE TV AND THE MEDIA PLAYS A BIG ROLE INTO PORTRAYING LATIN AMERICA AS THE BIGGEST IMMIGRANT POPULATION.

BUT THE FACT, AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN COMING FROM AFRICA AND OTHER PLACE TONS HERE.

>> DO YOU THINK PEOPLE MAKE A DISTINCTION?

IF WE HEAR YOU HAVE A SLIGHT ACCENT -- BUT IN MASSACHUSETTS, THERE ARE SO MANY ACCENTS GOING ON.

MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SCENARIO.

THAT PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT SENSE IN THEIR MIND WHO AN AFRICAN PERSON IS AND WHO AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN PERSON IS.

>> WELL, YEAH, I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHICH PEOPLE YOU'RE ASKING.

I THINK BOTH AFRICAN-AMERICANS DO, WHITE-AMERICANS DO.

IN SOME WAY THERE'S A TENSION BETWEEN AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND IMMIGRANTS, IMMIGRANTS AND THE CARIBBEAN BECAUSE AFRICAN-AMERICANS ACTUALLY FEEL RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY THESE IMMIGRANTS ARE LOOKING DOWN ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND CASTING DISPERSIONS SO I THINK THERE ARE MISCOMMUNICATIONS AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND MISPERCEPTIONS THAT GO BOTH WAYS AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ADDRESS.

I THINK THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF ACCESS TO HIGHER EDUCATION AND ALL THESE THINGS, I ACTUALLY SPENT THE LAST THREE DAYS VISITING SOME INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS WITH MY SON, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO WERE THERE WERE NOT AFRICAN-AMERICANS, THEY WERE NIGERIANS AND KENYANS AND PEOPLE SO IT'S A VERY INTERESTED AND COMPLICATED SITUATION THAT I THINK WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN WE ALL WORK TOWARD OUR COMMON INTERESTS AND GOALS AND WHERE DO THEY DIVERGE.

>> THIS CONVERSATION HITS CLOSE TO HOME FOR ME BECAUSE I'M THE PROUD SON OF HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1965.

I WAS WORN IN NEW YORK CITY.

I CONSIDER MYSELF BOTH HAITIAN AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND AFRICAN, REALLY, BECAUSE OF STUDYING HISTORY AND SORT OF THE PAN-AFRICAN BASIS OF HOW WE ALL GOT HERE.

SO I THINK EVERYBODY IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

BUT I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE TENSION, ONE THING MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME WAS, ONE, WE WERE BLACK PEOPLE, SO WE WERE CONNECTED TO BLACK AMERICANS EVEN IF WE HAD ORIGINALLY COME FROM HAITI.

TWO, WE ARE ALL CONNECTED POLITICALLY AND WE HAD ALL COME FROM THE NATIONS, WHETHER AFRICA OR THE CARIBBEAN, AND SAID WE HAD COMMON GROUND.

SHE TAUGHT US HAITIAN AND BLACK AMERICAN HISTORY.

ONCE WE KNEW THAT HISTORY, WE WERE VERY MUCH CONNECTED BOTH CULTURALLY BUT HISTORICALLY, SO WE NEVER THOUGHT TO OURSELVES WE WERE BETTER THAN AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

ALTHOUGH, BEING HAITIAN, I WAS AT HAITIAN AND CARIBBEAN PEOPLE WHO DID ARTICULATE THAT.

>> YEAH.

I'D HEARD IT.

THOSE PEOPLE WERE SPEAKING TO ME AS A HAITIAN OR CARIBBEAN PERSON.

NOW, AS AN ADULT, DEPENDING ON WHO I'M TALKING TO, SOME PEOPLE KNOW ME AS SOMEBODY WHO'S BLACK-MANNER AND I WRITE ABOUT THE BLACK POWER MOVEMENT.

SOME KNOW ME AS HAITIAN.

WHETHER PEOPLE ARE BLACK, WHITE, HAITIAN, PEOPLE TREAT YOU DIFFERENTLY.

IF THEY'RE TALKING TO THE CARIBBEAN GUY, THEY SAY, I KIND OF GET YOU, I YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST AND YOU'VE SUCCEEDED.

>> AND THAT'S THE QUESTION.

THERE'S A MYTHOLOGY OF THE IMMIGRANT SUCCESS THAT GETS CREDITED.

SOMETIMES IT'S NOT NECESSARILY -- AND YOU GUYS CAN SPEAK TO IT, OBVIOUSLY -- THAT IT'S NOT A NEGATIVE TO BE PERCEIVED.

IT'S IRONIC BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION IN GENERAL AND THE FEARS AROUND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND SO THERE MIGHT BE A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

BUT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE CONNOTATION THAT GETS ASSOCIATED WITH AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS IS A POSITIVE ONE SO I'M JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AND THAT GETS PERPETUATED TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS' DETRIMENT.

OH, YOU'RE HARD WORKING AND NOT GOING TO MANIFEST THE STEREOTYPES THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE GOING TO.

>> YOU WON'T BE PLAYSY.

RIGHT.

AND -- YOU WON'T BE LAZY.

WITH YOUR RUN, EVANDER, FOR THE 5th SUFFOLK DISTRICT, YOU CAME HERE, GOT A DEGREE, WENT TO THE STELLAR LAW DEGREE, YOU'RE A WALKING EXAMPLE.

>> THE REALITY IS THAT'S ACTUALLY TRUE BECAUSE I WAS -- I AM AN IMMIGRANT, I WAS BORN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY AND I ARRIVED IN THE U.S.

AS AGE 15.

SO THE REALITY OF THE STORY IS THERE.

WE CAN'T DENY IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M WALKING THE STREETS OF AMERICA, I'M A BLACK MAN.

AT SOMETIMES A HAITIAN.

AT TIMES DOMINICAN.

AT TIMES I'M JUST A BLACK GUY.

SO I THINK IF WE CAN FIND WAYS TO MOVE BEYOND THE IMMIGRANT, YOU FIND THAT EVEN YOU'RE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, YOU SEE ME AS A BLACK MAN.

NOT THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN HIGHLIGHTED, BUT ON A NORMAL DAY I'M JUST ANOTHER BLACK MAN.

I WENT TO THE SCHOOL OF LAW AND IN D.C.

AND HANGING OUT WITH NIGERIAN FRIENDS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M A BLACK MAN.

OBVIOUSLY, THE CAMPAIGN, IT MADE SENSE, BUT, YOU KNOW, TODAY, WHEN I STAND, TO MOST, I'M A BLACK MAN.

>> SAMUEL, WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE AFRICAN EXPERIENCE, SOMEONE IN AN ORGANIZATION WHERE YOU'RE WORKING TOWARD ALL LEVELS OF UNDERSTANDING WITHIN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY AND THE VALLEY?

>> I'LL COMMENT ON A FEW.

ONE I AGREE WITH EVANDRO, NO MATTER HOW YOU'RE PERCEIVED, YOU'RE BLACK.

>> RIGHT.

A LOT OF US HAVE A MENTALITY WHERE WE PERCEIVE OURSELVES TO BE A NOTCH HIGHER THAN EVERY OTHER BLACK PERSON, AND THERE'S A JOKE I LEARNED FROM A FRIEND OF MINE BEFORE I CAME ON THE SHOW -- WHEN GOD MADE BLACK PEOPLE, HE PUT THEM IN THE OVEN FOR A LITTLE TOO LONG.

WHEN GOD MADE WHITE PEOPLE, HE PUT THEM IN THE OVEN FOR A LITTLE TOO SHORT, BUT WHEN HE MADE ETHIOPIANS, IT WAS JUST RIGHT.

>> I'VE HEARD THAT.

WE HAVE THIS ELITE PERCEPTION THAT WE ARE BETTER THAN OTHER BLACK PEOPLE AND I'VE SEEN IT FROM AFRICAN-AMERICANS THAT COME FROM THE UNITED STATES.

UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE TO BLAME MAINSTREAM MEDIA FOR A LOT OF THIS.

THERE IS A HUGE DISCONNECT.

A LOT OF AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, WHEN THEY COME TO THE UNITED STATES AND TURN ON THE NEWS OR TV SHOWS OR WATCH MUSIC VIDEOS, THEY SEE THE SORT OF STEREOTYPICAL BLACK GANGSTER, GANG BANGER TYPE AND THEY'RE, LIKE, I DON'T WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, I'M HERE TO BECOME AN ACADEMICIAN OR A BUSINESSMAN.

SO THAT HAS BEEN A BIG ISSUE.

IN THE CASE OF ETHIOPIANS, WHICH I TRY TO EDUCATE MY FELLOW ETHIOPIANS ON, WE HAVE A HISTORY THAT DATES THIS COUNTRY'S FOUNDING.

WHEN YOU GO TO THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR THERE WAS A REGIMEN IN THE ARMY NAMED ETHIOPIAN NAMED AFTER BISHOP.

SO IT'S AN HONOR.

THEN THE FOUNDING OF THE BAPTIST CHURCH IN HARLEM.

IN 1936 WHEN ITALY INVADED ETHIOPIA UNDER MUSSOLINI, AFRICANS ORGANIZED THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.

I MEAN, THESE PEOPLE REALLY SACRIFICED THEIR VERY LIVES FOR ETHIOPIA AND THE IMAGE OF ETHIOPIA.

>> AND HISTORY CAN SAVE US HERE.

PART OF THE PROBLEMS WHEN IT COMES TO TENSION IS A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE, AMONGST CARIBBEAN AND IMMIGRANTS NOT KNOWING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN STORY, BUT, TWO, PREDOMINANTLY WHITE INSTITUTIONS PLAYING GAMES, WHERE THEY PICK THE BEST BLACKS AND THE BLACKS THEY WANT.

WHAT'S INTERESTING IS IT'S PEOPLE LIKE DR.

KING AND OTHERS WHO OPENED UP THE STRUGGLE FOR ALL OF US, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

WHAT IT IS IS CARIBBEAN AND AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, 1.8 MILLION, MANY COMING FROM PLACE WHERE IS THEY'VE HAD BETTER RELEVANT EDUCATION, EVEN IF THEY'RE SO-CALLED THIRD-WORLD COUNTRIES.

THEY'RE COMING BETTER ABLE TO READ AND WRITE THAN SOMEBODY IN DORCHESTER, ROXBURY OR OAKLAND.

SO THESE CARIBBEAN, AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, THEY'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE AND NO ONE'S SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF OPPORTUNITIES, BUT AT THE SAME TIME SEPARATING THEMSELVES FROM THE RABBLE, AND THAT'S US.

WE FOUGHT, DIED AND BLED TO GET AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

AND NOT JUST BLACK, IT'S HAITIAN, IT'S ALL OF US.

BUT NEW IMMIGRANTS, AND WE SEE IN NOVELS LIKE AMERICANA, WHICH IS 100 PERCENT BRILLIANT, BECAUSE SHE SHOWS THE THE DIALE, THE NUANCES, WHERE THERE ARE SOME NIGERIANS WHO ACT AS IF THEY DON'T KNOW, BUT THERE ARE SOME IN HER NOVEL WHO GET IT AND THE SUBTLETIES GOING ON AND THEY'RE REALLY CLIMBING ON THE BACKS OF THE BLACK AMERICANS.

>> IT'S TO BE EXPECTED BECAUSE EVERY IMMIGRANT GROUP THAT'S COME INTO AMERICA, IRISH, ITALIAN, THE WAY YOU BECOME WHITE IS TO STAND ON THE BACKS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, RIGHT?

SO IN SOME WAYS, THESE BLACK IMMIGRANT GROUPS ARE SIMPLY MIMICKING THE IMMIGRANT EXPERIENCE.

THE IRISH WERE CONSIDERED LOWER CLASS UNTIL THEY ACHIEVED WHITENESS.

>> THERE'S A BOOK ABOUT HOW TO BECOME WHITE.

>> AND YOU DO THAT BY DISASSOCIATING YOURSELF FROM BLACK AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

WE KNOW INDIVIDUALLY MANY AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS UNDERSTAND THE SACRIFICES AND BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE GONE TO AND HOW IT BENEFITS EVERYBODY.

WE'RE NOT SAYING PEOPLE INDIVIDUALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT BUT WE KNOW GENERALLY THESE STEREOTYPES EXIST AND THEY'RE PAINFUL FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT BY DEFINITION AN IMMIGRANT IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS MORE INITIATIVE THAN MAYBE YOUR AVERAGE PERSON, SO THE GROUP OF PEOPLE COMING HERE AS IMMIGRANTS, THIS IS TRUE ACROSS THE BOARD BY DEFINITION, RIGHT, I THINK HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INPUT, GET UP AND GO, LIKE THE AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, YOU KNOW, BLACK PEOPLE WHO LEFT THE SOUTH AND CAME TO THE NORTH BY DEFINITION HAD THAT KIND OF GET UP AND GO.

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS TO NOTE DURING THE PERIOD OF CIVIL RIGHTS, REMEMBER THAT AFRICAN DIPLOMATS COULD COME AND STAY AT WHITE HOTELS ACROSS THE BOARD, WHERE AFRICAN-AMERICANS LOOKING THE SAME COULD NOT.

A LOT OF TENSION AROUND THAT.

GROWING UP IN MEMPHIS -- KIM, YOU AND RIBOTH FROM MEMPHIS -- I DON'T REMEMBER MEETING ANYONE FROM THE CARIBBEAN.

I KNEW AFRICAN SCHOLARS.

I CAME TO BOSTON.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE NOW.

IF I GO TO MEMPHIS NOW JUST IN TERMS OF THE WAY WE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION, THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IMMIGRATING I THINK HAVE BECOME SO WIDESPREAD THAT EVEN IN COMMUNITIES THAT BEFORE SOMEONE MIGHT NOT BE FAMILIAR, NOW THEY ARE, BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ARE GOING EVERYWHERE.

REMEMBER WHEN PEOPLE DIDN'T THINK LATINOS WENT ANYWHERE EXCEPT THE COASTAL MAJOR CITIES AND NOW YOU CAN FIND LATINOS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

SAME THING FOR, YOU KNOW, BLACK IMMIGRANTS.

THEY'RE IN MANY COMMUNITIES AND I THINK THAT MADE FOR A BEGINNING OF A DIALOGUE, BUT GUESS WHAT?

IF ALL THOSE FORCES COME TOGETHER, IT'S QUITE A POLITICAL FORCE.

SO AS PEOPLE ARE COMMENTING ON THE NUMBERS INCREASING IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE QUESTION HAS BECOME WELL, WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON MASSACHUSETTS AND FOR THAT MATTER THE REST OF THE NATION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE IMPACT?

>> I THINK THE ONE THING TO CONSIDER JUST WITH THE AFRICAN COMMUNITY IN THIS COMMONWEALTH, YOU HAVE ABOUT 100,000 AFRICANS.

IMAGINE IF THEY WERE ALL U.S.

CITIZENS REGISTERED TO VOTE AND ACTUALLY VOTING.

I MEAN, YOU COULD INFLUENCE ANY STATEWIDE ELECTION AS A VOTING BLOCK.

WHETHER YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS YOU'RE REALLY VOTING.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT REAL IMPACT THAT THE AFRICAN OR BLACK IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE COULD HAVE ON POLITICS AND THE ECONOMIC SIDE.

BACK TO WHAT KIM WAS SAYING, THE IMMIGRANTS, ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, THEY ARE ENTREPRENEURIAL AND GET UP AND GO AND VERY DRIVEN.

IN MASSACHUSETTS, I'VE FOUND THEM TO BE VERY ENTREPRENEURIAL.

THEY ARE ALWAYS LOOKING OUT FOR THE NEXT BEST THING.

A LOT ARE SHOPKEEPERS, WHETHER THE LITTLE CORNER 7-11 WHERE YOU GET YOUR 25-CENT BAG OF CHIPS -- OR THEY COST 99 CENTS NOW, RIGHT?

(LAUGHTER) AND WHETHER IT'S AUTO DEALERS, MECHANICS AND PEOPLE IN THE FINANCIAL DISTRICT, I MEAN, THESE PEOPLE ARE VERY NORM AND VERY DRIVEN -- VERY ENTREPRENEURIAL AND VERY DRIVEN.

THEY'RE NOT STEALING IMPACT.

THEY'RE CREATING JOBS.

IN MASSACHUSETTS ALONE LAST YEAR IMMIGRANTS CREATED MOST TO JOB CREATION IN THIS STATE AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE.

SO WE HAVE IMMIGRANTS TO THANK REALLY FOR A LOT OF JOB CREATION.

>> HOW DO WE ASSESS ASSIMILATION, THEN?

PART OF WHAT'S BEEN THE CHALLENGE FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE PERSONS OF COLOR, NO MATTER WHERE WE COME FROM, IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH, HOW LITTLE DO WE SIMULATE?

HOW MUCH DO YOU RETAIN WHO YOU ARE CULTURALLY AND YET BE AMERICAN.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BECOMING BLACK AMERICAN.

SO IS THAT MORE DIFFICULT FOR IMMIGRANTS COMING UP TO BECOME BLACK AMERICANS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO RETAIN MORE OF YOUR HISTORIC CULTURE?

>> I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE AGE.

YOU KNOW, MY MOTHER WHEN SHE CAME, SHE COULDN'T ASSIMILATE, RIGHT?

SHE CAME AT 30-SOMETHING YEARS OLD.

SHE HAD KIDS BACK HOME.

SHE HAD A PARTICULAR PURPOSE IN MIND WHICH IS WORK.

NOW SHE'S LEARNING MORE ENGLISH.

BUT SHE COULDN'T REALLY ASSIMILATE BECAUSE ALL OUR PURPOSE WAS TO WORK FOR CHILDREN AND BRING THEM HERE.

BUT A YOUNG GUY LIKE ME, MY PURPOSE WOULD BE TO FIT IN.

SO I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE I AGE.

BUT AS THE GENERATIONS EVOLVE, THIS GUY I BELIEVE IS THE FIRST GENERATION, SO HE'S OBVIOUSLY MORE EMBEDDED IN THE CULTURE THAN HIS PARENTS ARE.

SO I THINK IN TERMS OF WHEN WE GO FORWARD, WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT, YOU KNOW, AGE WILL BE DIFFERENT, DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, WHERE PEOPLE ARE IN THEIR LIVES.

MY GRANDFATHER WHICH JUST CAME TO THE U.S.

IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, HE'S NOT GOING TO SIMULATE.

HE HAS A STRONG BACKGROUND, SPEAKS NO ENGLISH.

THERE'S NO ASSIMILATION.

BUT MY SONS THAT WILL BE BORN, I THINK THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT, HOW CAN WE GET THEM INTO THE MAIN STREAM CULTURE.

>> WELL, IF THERE ARE GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCES, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> JUST TO ADD TO THAT VERY QUICKLY.

YOU KNOW, SAME STORY ON MY END AND FOR A LOT OF OTHER AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS.

PROBABLY THE REASON I WEAR THE DUAL LAPEL PIN IS EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THAT, I IDENTIFY AS AMERICAN AND ETHIOPIAN.

I TRY TO CROSS THE WORLDS AS MUCH AS I CAN, I HAVE TWO HANDS AND ONE IN EACH POT.

IT'S THIS DUAL IDENTITY.

I FIND IF I HAVE KIDS, THEY WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE AMERICAN.

IT'S NOT A BAD THING.

FOR A LOT OF THIRD, FOURTH GENERATION IRISH THAT ARE HERE, THEY STILL CELEBRATE THEIR IRISH ROOTS AND FOR A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, AND I THINK THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BECOME.

>> YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE MEAN BY ASSIMILATION?

WHETHER CAPE VERDEIANS OR HAITIANS OR NIGERIANS -- AND THE BOOK TALKS ABOUT NIGERIANS AS THOSE WHO ASSIMILATE PROPER CAPITALIST VALUES.

SO THERE'S AN ELITE GROUP THAT'S BECOMING ANTI-BLACK.

PEOPLE SAYING NIGERIANS CALLING BLACK PEOPLE A SPECIAL WORD FOR "GHETTO" OR STOP ACTING SO BLACK, RIGHT?

>> YES.

AND THEN AN ASSIMILATION BY GRASSROOTS AND CAPE VERDEIANS WHO ARE SAYING AS BEING NEGATIVE.

IS IT BEING GANG VIOLENCE?

A MODE OF HIP-HOP THAT'S NEGATIVE, NOT TO SMEAR HIP-HOP, BUT WHAT LEVELS OF ASSIMILATION BECAUSE WHAT WE WANT THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS BROTHERS AND SISTERS IS TO BE ASSOCIATED IN CERTAIN CULTURAL POLITICAL VALUES, EMPLOYMENT, JOB CREATION, BUT ALSO SOCIAL PROTEST, CIVIL RIGHTS, BEING PRO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

I DON'T WANT 1.8 MILLION AFRICAN VOTERS AGAINST SOCIAL WELFARE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT DOES DEPEND ON WHAT YOU'RE VOTING ON (LAUGHTER) >> PROGRESSIVE VALUES.

I WANT THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THE FIGHT COMING IN AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE.

WHAT IF MAYBE A BUNCH OF NIGERIAN ENTREPRENEURS START COMING HERE AND EMPLOYING PEOPLE IN DUDLEY SCWAIR?

THEN WE HAVE A PAN AMERICAN GROUP THAT'S PRAGMATIC.

WE WANT JOBS AND EDUCATION AND -- >> HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

THERE'S A STRUGGLE ABOUT ASSIMILATION WHERE PEOPLE OF COLOR IS AN ONGOING ONE, WHERE DO YOU COME FROM.

>> YEAH.

HOW DO WE DO THAT AND CONNECT TOGETHER?

BECAUSE THERE ARE A COUPLE OF GROUPS WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO BRING TOGETHER JUST AFRICANS, VARIOUS FOLKS.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

HOW DO YOU BECOME A POLITICAL FORCE?

WHAT DO YOU TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT AND PRIMARILY HOW DO YOU DO THAT BY REDUCING A LEVEL OF TENSION WHERE THERE IS SOME.

AND I WANT TO BRING UP THAT YOUNG MAN (PHONETIC), BUT HE'S A MAN.

>> IVY LEAGUE STUDENT.

APPLIED TO ALL EIGHT IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS AND GOT IN ALL EIGHT.

WE WERE SO CELEBRATING, AND THEN THE BACKLASH.

BUT THEN THERE WAS A COMMENT FROM SOMEONE FROM AN EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION SAYING HE'S MORE THAN YOUR AVERAGE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

WHAT?

BUT THIS IS A REALITY.

THIS IS WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IS THESE INSTITUTIONS AND TRYING TO ACHIEVE DIVERSITY BUT CHOOSING DIVERSITY YOU KNOW WITH AFTERAFRICAN IMMIGRANTS.

AND I SAW THIS FOR MYSELF TODAY, AT THESE INSTITUTIONS.

YOU KNOW, WHICH BLACK PEOPLE ARE THEY CHOOSING?

AND IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT THING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO BE TURNED AGAINST EACH OTHER.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM.

THIS IS WHAT ABOUT THESE INSTITUTIONS ARE DOING IN TRYING TO PLAY ONE GROUP OFF OF ANOTHER AND EXPERIENCES BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT COMMON OR INDIVIDUAL OR COLLECTIVE EXPERIENCES.

SO THE CHALLENGE IS HOW DO WE BRIDGE THESE GAPS AND WHERE DO WE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW OF VERY MANY PLACES.

SOME CHURCHES, MY CHURCH IS ONE OF THEM, BUT I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER CIVIC SPACES WHERE GROUPS IN BOSTON -- BOSTON IS A VIBRANT, DYNAMIC COMMUNITY.

I WALK THROUGH MA DIPAN SQUARE AND HEAR A LOT OF LANGUAGES BUT NOT A LOT OF INTERMINGLING.

SO WHERE DO WE CREATE THE SPACES?

>> WE'LL GO ONLINE TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION.

BUT GO AHEAD.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD JUST ADD ON TO THIS IS ASIDE FROM THE ETHIOPIAN GLOBAL INITIATIVE, I'M A BOARD MEMBER FROM AFRICANS IN BOSTON WHICH IS A LOCAL GREATER BOSTON AREA, CIVIC AND CULTURAL.

INCREASING CIVIC AWARENESS, ENGAGING AFRICANS TO ENSURE THEY'RE VOTING ON ELECTION DAY BUT ON THE CULTURAL SIDE TO PROVIDE A PLATFORM WHERE PEOPLE FROM ALL THE 54 AFRICAN COUNTRIES THAT ARE REPRESENTED IN BOSTON COULD INTERMINGLE AND NETWORK ON A SOCIAL AND PROFESSIONAL LEVEL.

BUT I THINK A VALUE FOR ORGANIZATION LIKE AFRICANS IN BOSTON IS ACTUALLY TO BE A PLATFORM WHERE THE WHOLE BLACK WORLD IN BOSTON COULD MEET AND ENGAGE, WHETHER SOCIAL AND PROFESSIONAL SETTINGS.

AND I THINK THE BEST WAY TO SORT OF SLASH SOME OF THESE STEREOTYPES AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS IS JUST BY INCREASING PEOPLE, BY HARNESSING RELATIONSHIPS AND REALLY PROPRIETARYING AWARENESS OF THIS HISTORY.

BECAUSE I CONSTANTLY REMIND A LOT OF AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS, WITHOUT THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO PRECEDED OUR RIVAL, WE WOULD STILL HAVE -- >> IT'S NOT JUST PROMOTING, IT'S A MANDATE ON IMMIGRANTS WHO COME HERE, PEOPLE OF COLOR, TO KNOW ABOUT THE BLACK-AMERICAN STORY.

WITHOUT THAT KNOWLEDGE, YOU SAY ALL KIND OF TERRIBLE AND NEGATIVE THINGS.

THEY FALL INTO THE DEMONIZATION WHICH IS WHITE SUPREMACIST DEMONIZATION OF BLACK PEOPLE AND WE'RE SEEING IT.

>> I NEED TO KNOW -- TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION, SEE PAST EPISODES OR DISCOVER NEW STORY.

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