Production of Evening with the Governor is made possible in part by Martin Waymire, a full service strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

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Also by business leaders for Michigan, dedicated to making Michigan a top ten state for jobs, education, widely shared prosperity, and a healthy economy.

Information at businessleadersformichigan.com Off the Record, presents Evening with the Governor, with Governor Gretchen Whitmer, and first gentleman, Dr. Marc Mallory from the Michigan Governor's residence heres Senior capital correspondent Tim Skubick.

Governor, thank you for having us here at the residence on behalf of the people from Michigan Public TV.

Always great to be with you.

I always look forward to this.

Can you believe this is number five?

I know.

It's kind of amazing how quick time's gone.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's start with an easy one.

Has anybody approached you about writing a book about your life?

Yes.

Talk to me.

You know, I've had some folks have reached out, and obviously, you know, at some point that might be something that I want to do.

Some folks like?

I mean, different journalists that, you know, have covered me over the years.

What's the number, two or three?

A handful.

Do you want to do that?

At some point.

At some point, I feel like maybe there's a short book to write.

It may be sooner.

And, you know, talking about different pieces of my philosophy, but ultimately, maybe a longer form book.

But that's comes later, like maybe when I'm done being Governor.

Here's the problem with the book thing.

You know what people are going to say?

Everybody who's running for, you know what writes a book before they do it.

Yeah, well, lots of other people write books, too, and don't run for anything.

Do you have a title?

No.

Oh, it's obvious.

It's obvious.

What's my title?

That woman from Michigan.

All right.

Would you buy a copy?

I would.

Yeah, I guess I expect me to send you one huh?

No, no, no.

I guess, you know, let's keep it straight.

I'll.

I'll buy a copy.

All right.

In the last five years, as you've been Governor of the state of Michigan, was there ever a moment when you said to yourself, I wish I'd have been a sports reporter?

I mean, it's been unprecedented challenges, right?

Anyone who's governing over the last five years has dealt with pandemics and social unrest and threats and things that fundamental rights that we thought were locked in that now are ripped out from underneath us.

So it's been heavy.

I can tell you that the day I flew to Midland to see the damage from the floods and the wiping out of the dams and the bridges was in the middle of the pandemic.

And it really was one of the heaviest days.

We've had a couple of big shootings right?

In Oxford and Michigan State.

So they're really heavy days.

And yet I still feel very, very fortunate to be in this spot.

I know that the work that I'm doing makes a difference.

And so I'm I'm glad I'm grateful to be the governor of Michigan.

But yeah, there are other jobs that might, you know, have been a little easier.

How long does it take you to bounce back?

Can you turn it around pretty quick?

I can.

You know, I was talking to my mom's sister who is the closest thing to my mother that I have.

And I asked her, I said aunt Betsey, you know, what would my mom say if she was here?

And she said, you know, Gretchen, you're so much like your mom, you have the ability to see light or find something humorous even in the darkest, most difficult times.

And that's a that's a great strength.

And I've thought about that, you know, many times since she said it.

And I think that's probably is a superpower.

I didn't really realize that I was able to cultivate over the years.

Are you still on TikTok?

I am.

So is Mr. Biden got it wrong when he banned that for the federal government devices?

Well, you know, we don't have TikTok on government devices either.

There is a security risk.

But we do recognize that there are a lot of people that get their information from TikTok.

And so I think we're balancing...

Including the Communist Party.

Yeah.

And that's why we have a device that is dedicated simply to TikTok.

It's not attached to any of my personal things.

It's not attached to a state server.

And I think we can't not communicate with a lot of people in the state and in this country.

And I think that utilizing every platform is really important, even even though it creates a lot of needs for security.

Well, do you think the bad guys are taking this information, particularly from our children?

Do you think that's going on?

I have great concerns about it.

And so there are only you are on Tik talking, adding to it.

No.

I think that what we're doing is using a medium that a lot of people use to disseminate accurate information.

And I think and some fun content too.

You know, I talk to people who have seen the oatmeal bake that I did my grandmother's oatmeal bake, and it's it brings people together.

It can show you a human side.

But I think we need some federal action when it comes to ensuring the integrity of all those platforms.

Alright, have you used or will you use artificial intelligence as part of your job or even your personal life?

I think that, you know, A.I.

has a lot of potential positive sides, but also some very serious potential downsides.

And so it's how it's going to be deployed and how people are going to oversee it.

But, you know, I haven't had too much time to play around with chatgpt yet.

I've done a little bit.

It's fascinating.

You think about, you know, how it can help make us more productive, but also how it could be corrupted.

And so I'm I am cautiously optimistic about what A.I.

is going to do in terms of our productivity and solving problems.

You could ask A.I.

to produce a John Kennedy state of the state message.

Yeah, you could.

Would you do that sort of thing?

I haven't.

No.

You know, I think that distilling.

Why are you struggling with this?

I'm not.

I just think that I. I know that I am not the tech guru in my in my organization.

And so I do believe that there are probably some very positive aspects, but I also have some reservations about it.

Let's talk about some issues.

Are you ready to expand the state tobacco tax to vaping and e-cigarettes, the flavored vaping stuff?

Well, you know, I have got real concerns about vaping.

That's not news to anyone.

You know started out taking them on Remember?

Try to.

Yes, yes.

Preclude all of the different ways that they curate their products to our kids I was talking to one of my kids and she was telling me that she's got friends who are smoking cigarettes to try to get off of vaping.

Yes and so you just think about how we created Addict, you know, addiction and and health consequences for young people with a product that has been marketed to them specifically and told that it's healthier than than traditional smoking but you get them hooked and then and it's so easy to vape anywhere and that's a part of the problem.

So extend the tobacco tax to those products?

You know, I'm not leading with that.

But if something like that was something the legislature wanted to send to my desk, I to have a conversation with them about it.

Well, the data suggests that the more you tax, the less they smoke and use it.

So why not do it?

Yeah, I think I'm open to it.

Tim, get the bill drafted.

Get it turned in and you know, we'll negotiate.

Ranked voting.

Do you support that?

I not yet.

I, I love the well I think it's an easy thing to say you know I've heard the upsides to it.

I also know that I think our our voting system works pretty well.

So in the wake of that settlement of the auto strike, two of the companies, General Motors and Stellantis, turned around and laid off people right in the middle of the holiday.

When you heard that story, what did you think?

Well, you know, it's it's it's not great, right?

I mean, I don't like to hear stories like that.

I also know that there's a lot happening globally and all all businesses connected to the auto industry.

There's a huge transition that's happening.

And so, you know, I'm proud of what we've been able to accomplish here.

I'm glad that the strike concluded and the rationale for for those layoffs.

So I understand somewhat is that you need a different type of team as you see this transition happening.

But, you know, I'm going to keep a close eye on it and see what the real plan is to place people within the companies.

And that's what the promise has been.

The Biden administration had all legislators in from around the country at the White House and the Vice President presided over a thing on gun safety.

And one of the recommendations, the two of the recommendations made, you're all ready there okay.

The lockboxes and the background checks, but they call for the assault weapons ban and the limit on the magazine size.

You've kind of been silent on those, two.

Well, you know, Tim, I want to get something done.

And I know that if you come out of the blocks with wholesale sweeping changes, that that might mean we're not going to get our background checks or the red flag laws or the secure storage, which we did.

But those are out of the way now Governor.

They are out of the way now.

And I would welcome a continued conversation about additional things that we can and should take to make people safe.

I do think that weapons of war do not make sense on, you know, for sale to the average person in the public.

I do have a problem with that, and I would be very open to having that Dialogue.

But having a conversation, you and I both know is not the same as the Governor saying we need to do this.

I think personally I think would be the right thing to do.

All right.

So you've already referenced we're moving into a shared power part of the legislature.

When they come back, you have you are you will be the only player in town.. Who even knows what that term means?

Well, yes, When it was ?

Yes, because you were there.

You were there during Curtis Hertel and Paul Hillegonds.

The co-speakers of the House.

What was your job?

I was an intern.

I started and then when I graduated from State, they hired me on as a general.

Who was your contact?

Speaker Hertel.

He knew you?

Yeah.

I mean, I worked Joel Palmira was it helped me get the internship.

And after I proved myself, they offered me a full time job.

I So you basically you what did you do?

You answered phones?

I did a lot of constituent work for a number of members of the legislature.

So I know how important those people are.

Right.

So having lived through shared power and the general opinion was, it generally worked pretty well, didn't it?

It did.

But let's be clear, this is not shared power.

This is a 54-54 tie for the time being.

We have two elections that are on the horizon.

Yeah, you can hardly wait.

The House will be back up to full throttle.

So it's not like they came in at 54-54 and had to cobble out an agreement where every other month that each party was in control, like shared power of 1994.

Oh my God.

You owe me one That's 30 years ago.

It was.

I think it was.

But but look at.

All right.

So are you basically writing off the next three months of the legislative process to do anything of substance?

No, not at all.

I think we'll still get a lot of good stuff done.

Yeah name two?

But you know how you know how slow it is to start every year.

They'll wait till the state of the state, which will be at the end of January.

I'll introduce the budget a few weeks later and then it'll get started.

And by then we'll have they will have already had a special primary election and they'll have a general election in April, so they'll be back to full, full throttle.

So but in the beginning of the year, you're going to need to find at least one Republican to do what you want, assuming assuming that you hang on to all of your votes.

Have you done the math in your head here?

This is going to be a little complicated, isn't it?

No.

I mean, Tim my first term, I had to work with Mike Shirkey and Lee Chatfield.

Do you miss Mike Shirkey?

Don't miss either of them.

I don't wish either of them ill.

But I I'm I'm very thrilled to be working with Winnie Brinks.

and Joe Tate.

Yeah, they were.

They were a challenge, weren't they?

Yes.

Did you beat them at it?

Well, I'm still here and we've got a lot of great stuff done.

So I'm I'm optimistic.

I know I've got three more years and I'm not counting down by any stretch, but I also know time passes fast.

And so I don't let I don't let Moss gather.

We keep moving.

We move fast.

One of the issues that could get some bipartisan support is this fix on the no fault catastrophic fund.

What is your personal position on this?

Well, I think, first of all, you know, I think it's important to recognize we did improve a system so that we gave consumers some more choice.

There always was the concern, I think, in the back of our minds of what about people who are injured prior to the law change.

And so I think with the Supreme Court ruling it now gives us the ability to ascertain where can we make some additional improvements now.

Now, the other issues..

Yes but youve left this up to the legislature to do.

we've been talking with them.

And Anita from has been talking with them, too.

And I would suspect we'll find some common ground pretty early this year.

But why didn't you make a proposal?

Tim, you know what I am reacting to some of the work that the legislature is doing.

I think it's important.

I've thrown proposals out there.

I think this has got to come from the legislature.

They're holding hearings.

Obviously, I'm a partner and we'll work with them from the beginning to the end and we'll get it right.

You're familiar with the phrase the Governor proposes and the Legislature disposes.

Yeah, that's usually used with the budget, though, Tim, as you know.

I'm sorry, what?

It's usually used with the budget.

As you know, I thought Harry Gast always said that.

I always think I ran around long enough.

I remember here we remember Harry Gast.

I do okay.

But yeah but he was concerned about the budget but I always thought that applied to everything.

Well, you know, the.

You know that's not true.

Well, I'm asking the question.

When I was a legislator, I didn't wait for the Governor to propose everything.

You think you will get that done, though?

I do.

There will be a fix?

Alright.

Let's turn to politics on the national level.

Do you think the Republicans are unfairly using the age issue against the incumbent President?

I do think it's fascinating that age is used against one of the frontrunners and not against the other.

I can tell you, I've spent time with President Biden.

He has not slowed down intellectually, emotionally, physically.

He's a little slower.

He is a little stiffer.

But I mean, he's he has, I think, done some incredible work for our country.

I don't know that he gets all the credit.

And I think that's what the whole next 11 months is going to be about, telling that story.

So it is unfair to use the age issue against him?

I think so, especially when it's only comes from one side.

Well, but here's your problem.

You had on hands up close personal, the 70% of the people in the polls who don't believe that that it is a problem, don't have the same perspective.

You got a problem there, Governor.

Yeah, I think that there is a real need for us to do a better job communicating and when I say us, I mean I mean Democrats.

I mean Democrats in Washington, D.C. in particular.

Third party candidate influence on the election.

Could it cost Mr. Biden his job?

I think it could.

You worried about it?

I am.

I lived through 2016.

I know that a third party candidate can make up a small margin.

And in a state where often elections are decided by small margins, that could be a difference maker.

Yeah.

But your friend Fred Upton says, you know what, If it got to that point that Mr. Trump was going to win because of us, we would bail out.

Well, first, you're accurate.

Fred is my friend.

I love Fred Upton.

He's a great human being.

You would have voted for him.

Depends on who hes running against.

Good one.

He's a great person and I agree with him on most things, but I disagree with him on this one.

I think that our margins and in this state are always close and we just can't make any assumptions.

But their argument is this the majority of people don't want either of these gentlemen.

Hence we present a third party candidate.

We're giving the voters an alternative.

You're not buying that?

No.

Not even close?

No, because it's not a legitimate third alternative.

It's a spoiler.

So did the President make a mistake by saying publicly that if Donald Trump wasn't running, I probably might not have run?

When you heard that first, did you say, oops, damage control?

Yes.

You did think that?

Yeah.

And then what else did you think?

Just, you know, one of the things I think that makes President Biden so relatable is he's not perfect.

You know, he's not always thinking what's how is this going to play?

He tells you what his heart is.

And I actually think that that's a great strength.

One of the greatest compliments I think a person can give an officeholder in this moment is you're genuine, right?

You're authentic.

People feel like everyone's so tried to be perfectly quaffed and use all the right words and never say something wrong or make a mistake or say something that's too spicy or whatever.

President Biden is President Biden always.

And sometimes it makes him, you know, so kind.

Like when he offered my daughter a Fig Newton when we were on the campaign trail or when he says something like that, like maybe he wouldn't be.

Maybe you wouldn't be, I don't know.

But he's our candidate and I, as I've told people like this President is running.

It is go time, get on the train.

The problem with the statement was it sort of implied was I really am only running for this reason.

And that clearly in your mind is not the case.

It's not the case.

Right.

So I just think it's an unfortunate string of words that make people draw conclusions that aren't real.

At the end of the day, do you think the two of them will still end up on the ticket facing one another Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden?

I think so.

All right.

I would never have imagined that four years ago, but I think so.

When you watch former Governor Haley on the stage, do you ever sit there and say, that sounds a little bit like me?

Why is that funny?

I don't I don't know.

I mean, we've both have dark hair.

Alright, thats one.

But we're very different on on a variety of issues.

But she's assertive.

But I do think that her style I can see why people find it, you know.

But see I think think of it positively.

Well, you're I mean, you're willing to pick a fight if you have to, right?

Yeah.

And be aggressive.

Especially if you come for my kid.

Yeah.

All right.

Which we saw her do.

Is there anybody on that platform that impresses you?

You know, I... No.

All right, This is an off the wall question.

If you don't like it, let me know.

All right?

Oh I'll let you know.

I'm sure you will.

I appreciate our honesty here.

If somebody offered you $100,000 that you could give to a special charity of your choice, would you debate Donald Trump on television?

Maybe.

A maybe?

Why a maybe?

I don't know.

$100,000 could do a lot of good for for some organizations.

I don't want to debate Donald Trump.

I'm not looking for opportunities to have a national profile.

I'm not.

There was a national outlet that thought it would be a great idea.

About a year and a half ago for me to debate Mike Pence and all I could think was what?

How does that help the people in Michigan?

It doesnt.

So no way José.

All right, some quickie questions.

Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune?

Jeopardy.

Beatles or Stones?

Stones.

I know.

I love the Marc'll say the Beatles if you ask them that.

But I love the Stones.

Well, he's right.

All right.

When's the last time you played Euchre?

Oh!

a couple of weeks ago.

And we're going to play this week.

really?

Yeah.

Family.

Family holiday, euchre and hot cocoa game.

Who's your favorite Disney character?

Mulan.

Favorite cartoon character.

I don't watch cartoons anymore.

And what did you when you were little?

Yeah, and Snoopy.

All right.

How about your favorite teacher, Mrs. Mrs. Buie, from second grade.

Wow.

Tell me about her My parents got divorced when I was in second grade, and it was kind of a hard year for me.

And I didn't want to go to school.

And I was worried about my sister who was in kindergarten.

She had to walk home halfway through the day, and I stayed for a full day and I was worried about her.

And Mrs. Buie just gave me extra little extra love and attention when I needed it, and it made a big difference.

Before we call in the first Gentleman, Meet the Press or Off the Record?

Off the Record, of course.

Oh Governor, you were doing so well.

Let's call in the first gentleman.

All right, Let's do it.

Mr first Gentlemen.

Welcome back to the show on your fifth TV appearance.

Wow.

Yeah.

Exciting, isn't it?

This is the highlight of your year.

This is where this is the highlight right now.

Governor am I to believe that?

No.

It's not even close?

He's stressed.

Yeah.

Let's take a deep breath.

I first of all, what was the highlight of your year that just knock your socks off?

Well, you know, there's been a lot of highlights, but I'd say the big one is we've got two kids graduating.

You know, my son Winston's graduating from Michigan Dental School.

Yeah.

And her daughter Sherry, is graduating from Michigan undergraduate school.

I mean, that for me.

That's it.

That's the last song, you know, out of the three that I have, you know, done with college.

So that's a huge.

Its a sense of accomplishment, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you take any of the credit for that?

No, it's all I give it 100%.

Oh come on.

Well, You know, he's going to be a dentist so , you know, so well influenced him a little.

I guess that solves everything.

Doesnt it?

Yeah.

How many dentists do we have in the family?

Two dentists.

Two sons that are dentists and one's a lawyer, and everybody's doing great.

And I.

So life is great.

All right, So that was the highlight of the year.

What what was a lowlight where you just took the guitar and went out in the backyard?

Yeah, well, unfortunately, you know, my dad passed this year.

You know, and so, you know, but I'll say this year he lived to be 91.

He was a great guy.

You know, tons of people loved him.

And he's left a great legacy.

So it's it's sad.

You know, it's made me reflect quite a little bit, you know?

But fortunately, mom's healthy, you know, and she just lives a block away.

So I see her all the time.

What did you learn from dad?

You know, you know, to get learn to be independent as soon as possible.

You know, it was all knowledge, everything was education, education, education, which he learned from his dad, you know, who worked at Fisher Body.

Well, you know, so he didn't have an education.

He made sure that his three sons did.

And I made sure my three sons did, you know.

So that's the big Malory legacy.

And from mom?

Well, mom, you know, similar thing.

She was she was on board.

She went back and educated herself, became a lawyer after she got all of us kids out, you know, Independent?

independent.

Totally independent, you know.

And, you know, she started with a law practice and she took them over.

So it sounds like somebody I know that's right.

Wow.

Well, her mom.

Yeah.

Followed a similar path that our mothers had parallel.

Both went to law school after having kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But your mom your mom was was different, wasn't she?

She was.

Yeah.

She was a really spectacular person.

Warm and funny and strong.

And did, you know, did things that weren't really common, you know, for a woman to go back to school.

DId you know, she was not common Yeah.

And, you know, even to this day yesterday, I had a conversation with a woman who knew my mom when they went to Western in college and was telling me stories about my mom.

And so even though I've lost her 21 years ago, she's still here.

Talk to me about your retirement decision.

it is so interesting, you know, now that it's coming up on, you know, three years.

So, you know, I'm getting used to it.

You know, I do bump into a lot of my old patients, which is great because I loved them.

I mean, you know, and I miss some that that's the biggest thing.

I was like...

But why did you move up the date?

Well, you know, again, you know, there was a lot of things going on.

It was hard to, you know, private, you know, I mean, that was the big thing.

You know, like, you got to get your name out there.

But for a while it was associated with her.

And so we were getting kind of crank calls and stuff.

And, I don't know, I just it was one extra layer.

I didn't want to deal with.

The threats against me.

Started spilling over to his office and his staff would answer the phone.

They were uncomfortable.

He was worried that maybe a patient would get hurt or a staff, and so he moved up the day he was going to work for another 7 to 8 years and decided to retire.

All right.

Let's put a ribbon on this with one final question.

Would you like to retire in the White House?

No, but but I'll say I want to leave it there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the same question to you.

No.

Thank you very much for your time you know we appreciate it.

And this is being seen on December 29th.

So what do you got planned for New Year's?

Very little.

We'll celebrate the new Year at about 9 p.m. and go to bed probably.

Will record the new year and watch it.

Thank you very much.

Good to see you.

Thank you.

Production of evening with the Governor is made possible, in part, by Martin Waymire a full service strategic communications agency, partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at MartinWaymire.com Also by business leaders for Michigan, dedicated to making Michigan a top ten state for jobs, education, widely shared prosperity, and a healthy economy.

Information at BusinessleadersforMichigan.com