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Off the Record presents Evenin with the Governor with Governor Gretchen Whitmer, and first gentleman, Dr. Marc Mallory, from the Michigan governor's residence.

Here is senior capital correspondent Tim Skubick.

So here we are back at the executive residence.

Welcome back.

You continue to do this?

I do.

We got two more of these.

I'm looking forward to them.

let's start out.

You've had first of all you've had one heck of a year.

On a scale of 1 to 10, this is a 12, is it not?

I think we've all lived through one heck of a year.

So, yeah, I mean, as governor, it's always pretty high up there on the scale, but this year has been a lot more unpredictable and challengin than any of would have guessed.

What was the most fun for you?

You know, I wrote a book and getting the book ou and talking about why I did it.

I want to put some light out in the world.

I knew presidential election years ar always heavy, hard, dark years.

And with the rematch, or at least what we thought was going to be the rematch, I thought this is a good time.

Because people always ask me, You've been through so much how do you stay positive?

Why did you want to run for reelection and keep doing this job?

And so it was just really it's it's a handbook.

It's not a memoir.

It's just ten things I've learned in my life.

And different stages in my life that I've used as as governor to try to stay positive and to stay focused on what matters.

You did a pretty good job of hawkin in that book.

You were everywhere.

You know, it's so funny because I really wasn't.

But for whatever reason, that's how it came off.

And so that's how... Did you know that was going to.

Happen?

Well, you know, I wasn't sure.

You know, I wrote this book and I wanted it to come out before the election because that was the whole purpose light in a dark time.

But it came out the week after the Biden Trump debate, which people were like, you, you you figured that one out perfectly.

I'm like, No.

yeah.

Like, I could have foreseen that.

comin.

Or like, you wanted that to happen.

Not at all.

But, you know, that's that' life and in American politics.

So how did you like interacting with all that high priced talent?

You know, it was fun.

I met Martha Stewart which was very cool, you know, But really the the most powerful thing that happened while I was, you know, talking about the book was when parents or young people would come up to me and say, like a parent say, I bought this for all my kids or a young person say, you know, I thank you for telling this story.

It made it really resonated with me.

And that's that's the best part of all of it.

Meeting famous people, that's it's fine.

Like, I' not going to complain about it.

But the the best feeling is when you talk to people who are looking for inspiration and that's what it was for.

But let's be honest here.

If we took together all the previous governors that have sat in that chair and put togethe all of their national exposure, none of them, none of them would touch you.

Well, part of that, you know.

So I had lunch with Matt Hall the other day, the incoming Republican leader in the House, next speaker of the House.

And he was we were chatting a little bit about that and he said, so, you know, this national campaign that you're on, I'm like sort of I'm not a national campaign.

I put a book out while you'r doing all this national media.

Well, the reason people even know who I am is because, you know, of all the leadership through COVID.

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

But governor took a really high profile role in a scary time.

And so that's really wha it's about more than anything.

Has that changed you?

I don't think so.

It still surprises me...

Being on Colbert, being on the disc jockeys in New York, all the stuff that you did, didn't that little just a just a skosh go to your head?

I don't think so.

You know, I mean, I it's it's fun.

It's challenging.

And so it's growth.

And so I enjoy that.

But, you know, all these hard conversations with you prepared me for that well, too.

So thank you.

Okay.

Talk to me about standing backstage, ready to go out in front of th Democratic National Convention Well, you know, as I was standing there behind the stage, you know, kind of looking out, I knew my my daughters were out there.

And so that was fun to be able to bring them to that that night.

But, you know, my biggest thought was don't fall on the way to the podium.

Pretty basic stuff, gravity.

Gretchen.

Did you did you think of mom at all?

Do now you know what?

I wanted to give a speech that sounded very Michigan that was optimistic that showed that we're we're strong and and it was all in 5 minutes so no I was not giving up Barack Obama's speech from his his debut at the.

So we finished the thin and you turned and walked away.

What were you thinking?

Thank God I didn't fall down.

Did you nail it?

I think I did well.

I totally mangled “Mar-A-Lago.” I said it, “Mayor Largo,” which some people were like “Oh, you were trolling...” If you weren't from Florida, just mangled it.

That's the unforced error.

That's fine.

Let's get into some political stuff.

We can't do this without.

Are you going to endorse in the next governor's race?

I have no plans to endorse in the next governor's race.

Why not?

I got a lot of friends who are running or thinking about running.

Exactly, but Governor that's what leadership is all about.

You know what leadership?

Actually, here's one of m philosophies about leadership.

I don't believe in dead hand control.

And you know that that's really a legal phrase from estate planning and law school.

But it's the attempt of someone outgoing, dying in that instance by outgoing to try to control what happens next.

And I'm going to leave it up to the people in Michigan.

I respect the people of Michigan, and I will, you know, do everything I can so that when I leave this office, I hand it over to whomever comes next i a strong shape as we can be.

It.

You know, there is a tradition in our beloved state where governors endorse their running mates.

And there's also a tradition that none of them end up winning.

Precisely.

So I think it's time to break tradition.

So in other words, you're doing Garland Gilchrist a favor by not endorsing him.

Hes been my partner for six years, he's a great leader.

I can tell you Jocelyn Benson has been a great secretary of State leading her department.

Mike Duggan's on a great job leading the city of Detroit, and that's probably not the whole class of friends that I have that are looking at it.

So what did you think when you heard Mr. Dugga was running as an independent?

First thought?

I think probably the sam thought that everyone else had.

You know, I knew, though before it became public culture.

Yeah.

Okay.

But what was the thought?

Like I said, he's been a great he's been a great partner.

He's making his calculation about his path to victory.

No, I'm not going to second guess it and I'm not going to criticize and I'm not going to I'm just going to stay out.

I'm not asking you to criticize this, but I'm asking you to say that you first thought this is a long shot, This is a fool's journey.

You know, I think I think it would be a mistake to write anyone off, and especially someon who has been written off before.

There's a couple.

How about Pete Buttigieg?

Yeah, I love Pete.

And you talk to him about this.

I have not.

Will you?

I will talk to anyone who wants to talk.

How many people have you talked to so far on the list about the thing?

All of them.

All.

And your sage advice was?

I think.

I think I don't know that they're actually looking for advice, I guess, to make sure that I know and to share what their thoughts are.

And no, no, they wanted your endorsement, right?

You know what?

I think staying ou is the best thing for everybody.

That's what I would do.

Let's let's you had a great line in the book.

One of your lessons about living life was look for the good from your grandma.

Look for the goo at any one person or situation.

In light of that touchstone kind of philosophy.

If Mr. Trump, the president elect, was sitting here right now, would you like to say to him, Mr. Trump, let's you and I bury our differences and patch them up and for the good of the nation, let's lay the foundation between you and I have a good working relationship.

You're smiling.

Am I on to something here?

no, absolutely.

You know, that is how I feel.

I took an oath of office to the people of Michigan, the people of Michigan, and the people of this country have elected Donald Trump as the next president.

My job is to work with him, and I'm going to do everything I can to find common ground.

I chatted with Matt Hall about that at our lunch, as well as near Eric Nesbitt.

At our lunch earlier this week.

I spoke with Pete Hoekstra earlier this week to congratulate him.

I think a michigan ambassador to Canada is a great thing, especially when there are so many important things that we're going to have to navigate.

And so I, you know, understand that there will be areas where we will not be able to find common ground.

But I'm hopeful that there are many where we can.

You know, how to play this game.

Have you sent any backchannel signals to the White House and says, I'm game, let's sit down and work this thing out?

If I told you about it, would it still be a backchannel signal, Tim?

Well, I guess that's a yes to my question, right?

I mean, you can deduct however you want.

I'm just telling yo I'm going to do everything I can to help the state of Michiga thrive over the next two years.

And I will work with anyone who wants to do that.

So when I write this stor that the governor has done back channel communications, the president elect, to work out their differences, I would not be incorrect.

Yes.

Thank you, Governor.

I appreciate that short answer.

You just hesitated a little bit.

Why did you hesitate?

Because I wasn't sure if I should say yes or maybe, but I said yes.

All right, Mr. Musk, he appears to have a little bit of power in this governmental process.

Does that bother you?

Well, I think, you know, I think that there could be some upsides of that.

But I think that there could be some real downsides to that.

And, you know, as we think about the importance of these positions, this ironically, the government efficiency has two leaders, which the irony I didn't escape you either.

You know, he's got a lot of conflicts.

He's got a lot of contracts with the federal government.

And so I'm concerned about that.

I'm concerned about anyone in a position of power in any administration that's got conflicts of interest, that their advice, their, you know, leadership could very well just be about enriching themselves as opposed to doing what the American people want and need and expect.

And that would be wrong.

It would be wrong, yes.

But what about some of the appointments that he's got out there?

Any concerns about that?

I was sure.

But you know what?

He won the election and he's going to make his choices.

I am hopeful that there is a thorough vetting and robust debate about.

But I'm not in Washington, DC.

I don't have any control over that.

But, you know, it certainly concerns This is going to be an unusual cabinet.

Do you fear that bad things are going to happen, that he's going to go after people, his quote, enemies?

This is shades of Richard Nixon, some would say.

Yeah.

I mean, I think some of the rhetoric is concerning.

Sometimes the rhetoric doesn't match up with the the follow through.

And so but I do think that, you know, a lot of there's a lot of folks who are on pins and needles waiting to see what happens and could be dramatic consequences.

So think about the Michigan economy, for instance, and you think about just even the tariff talk with Canada and Mexico.

it's very different than than Chinese tariffs.

We really do need to enforce the law when it comes to China and it comes to, you know, leveling the playing field.

They are eating the European auto dealers lunch right now.

They are just absolutely dominating in the European market.

We can't let that happen here in this country.

And so tariffs betwee Mexico and Canada will make it even more difficul for our auto industry because, you know, the cars that we buy that are Michigan made are back and forth.

There are pieces coming from all parts of all parts of North America and China, for that matter, that we've got to be mindful of, because the Chinese government is underwriting car manufacturing.

They don't need to make a profit.

They're just trying to drive all these other companies out of business.

We can't let it happen here in the States.

Your worst nightmare is that the Trump administration will cost UAW jobs in your state.

I mean, that's a nightmare scenario for all of us.

Is it my worst nightmare?

I can come up wit lots of other scenarios that are even of greater concern, but that is of huge concern.

And it should be for everyone who calls this state home.

Give me a couple of other ones that, youre concerned about.

No, I don't want to put any ideas in anyone's head.

But but th stuff that you've thought about, you're not completely sanguine with this new president.

Well, you know, I listen, every administration right.

There are going to be issues that come up that are unpredictable.

There are going to be rhetoric that doesn't end up, you know, culminating in action.

So it's unpredictable, I think.

And and that in and of itself is of grave concern.

Was you talk to folks in any line of business, predictability is important and that's hard to come by right now.

GM pulling out of the Lansing battery plant.

Did you get a heads up on that?

Well, they didn't pull out of the Lansing battery plant.

Oops, You don't like that?

Well, it's not accurate, so I'm.

Not going to be there.

Well, I think that there I think the facts matter.

And General Motors is committed.

They are continuing to build.

Theyre so committed tha they sold it to another company.

Well, at the moment, as you know, there's been a chilling impac on the adoption take up of EVs.

And so they've had to make some strategic decisions.

I understand that.

But why that's come on.

Well, they didn't pull out.

It's not over.

It's not like there aren't the jobs that we had made the investment for.

That all has happened.

I understand.

Bu they made a commitment to you.

The state did.

Gave them money.

Okay.

And you turn around and wake up one morning and say, well, adios.

Think, as we all know i the auto industry in particular, but in lots of industries right now, there's a lot of unpredictability.

There's no question that there is technology that needs to be developed.

And we have got to stay on the cutting edg of auto manufacturing and design and research and we've got to be nimble, too.

And it's a hard thing for for people to, I think, get your head around how many different pressures there are.

But this is a michigan company, a global firm that impacts every one of us, whether you're in the auto industry or not.

And that' why we've got to work with them.

Um... hows the relationship with Mr. Hall?

You know, pretty good, actually.

I mean.

You know, it started at zero.

It's budding.

It's budding.

It's a budding relation.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Can you work with him?

I think so, yeah.

I mean I worked with Mike Shirkey and Lee Chatfield and Jason Wentworth.

I mean, I. I can work with Matt Hall.

And I will say, you know, as we've open up discussions about a variety of issues, he has said he is committe to working on railroad funding, which he would be the first leader in all my years here that actually put his name on a plan.

I'm not crazy about the plan, but it is something to start from.

And I think that we can maybe we can find some common ground on this issue that has vexed multiple generations people of both parties.

Maybe we can actually work together to solve it.

The Governor, with all due respect, your harshest critics have said after Mr. Hall put this plan forward why didn't the governor do that?

She's the governor.

It's her.

It's her signature issue.

No Tim And when I did put a gas tax on the table, everyone complained about that, you know, So no one's going to get me upset by criticizing what they think I do or don't do enough of.

They need to show up and do their jobs.

And I'll keep doing that.

Just a second.

Okay.

That was in the first year.

Okay.

And so for next the next five years, there was crickets.

That that's that's totally inaccurate.

And as anyone in Michigan knows, you drive around the state an you see lots of orange barrels.

And that's part of the problem.

We've bonded because that was plan B, because I couldn't get the legislature to get serious about this.

People have seen all that construction there.

They're thrilled with it.

We got money from the Biden administration to do more.

And now people think tha maybe we've solved the problem.

We haven't, and that's why we're going to keep working at it.

All right.

Let's do some lightning round questions.

Are you ready to raise your right hand?

Let's go.

We go.

Have you started work on your second book?

No.

Okay, when will you do that?

I have no idea if I will do that.

You told me in the last interview that you were going to write a second book.

I said maybe we'll see.

You know, the young adult version of True Gretch is going to come out soon.

So I don't know if that count as a second book or not, though.

All right.

If your girls came to you and said, Mom, I want to run for elective office, you would nix it?

No, I would support them.

I think it's important fo young people to run for office.

You love your kids so much that you want them to exist in this meat grinder.

I woul be I would be there to help them every step of the way if they wanted to do it.

But I don't think that day is coming.

Did Australia get it right on the social media ban for 16 year olds on Tik Tok?

If they can figure out how to enforce it.

You know, would you consider doing that here?

I think social media is a rea problem in our country and in.

Fact, it's damaging the democracy.

It is that its.

Favorite Motown group.

good Lord, I don't know.

The Supremes.

That was just out of nowhere.

Well, I have to admit, you did not have a motown grou on your list of top ten songs.

All right.

I did have an Aretha Franklin song about and she's from Detroit.

I know she's not Motown.

I know you're like.

Okay, Well, here's the next one.

If you could have dinner with any famous person living or deceased, who would it be?

that's a great question.

I think Abraham Lincoln, interesting living would be Will Ferrell.

He's not available.

let's see.

A favorite female actor.

I love Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Why?

She's a lot like you.

Hilarious.

She's hilarious.

Favorite male actor.

I just talked about Will Ferrell.

I love him so much.

He's funny.

He's hilarious.

He's just I'm picking comedians because laughter is really important.

Favorite comfort food.

but you know a Vernors Float.

Favorite Christmas gift as a kid.

my We always in our seconds got those lifesavers books.

I know some people here are not where you are.

You know what they're.

But they got rolls of lifesavers on both sides.

I always looked forward to that at Christmas.

All right.

Let's see at this juncture, guess who's up next?

All right, buckle up.

Here we go.

Let's go to the first gentleman.

Mr. First Gentleman it's so good to see you again.

And you are so kind.

You submit to this.

I know this is not your favorite thing to do.

My pleasure.

Has anybody ever seen you on this segment of the show?

yeah, Mom.

My well, I appreciate Mom but we we try to go a little deeper in the demographics.

Any guys on the stree or the guys we have lunch with?

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

And so what do they say?

They say it passes.

Passes muster.

Barely.

His performance, not yours.

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's.

Mine's in the tank.

Yeah, I.

So what was the highlight of your year?

Well, one of my sons, his wife, is pregnant, so I'm going to be a grandpa I'm looking forward... Is that what you're going to be, a grandpa?

Yes, I like that.

That kind of classic.

Yeah, Classic.

And when is this great occasion?

Sometime in April.

you know.

Good Lord willing.

Did you read her book?

You you know, I read it.

You know, a lot of books, you know.

Did you read my book?

yes, I did.

Yeah, I read that book.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I was.

Yeah.

No, I'm not so sure.

No.

Why are you going to like that, Governor?

Yeah.

You read her book.

So what did you learn?

What did you.

You want to take a break here?

it's funny.

What did you learn about her that maybe you didn't know as a result of that book?

Well, you know, she's you know, just resilient is it's hard to say.

You know, I mean because I know her pretty well.

I married 13 years now, so, you know.

what did you make of her guidelines for doing life?

Anything resonated with you?

yeah.

You know as far as the key one is she's, you know, never said anything nice to somebody that she later regretted.

You know, I could I could work on that one.

I won't go there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do you miss dentistry?

Do you miss drilling people's teeth?

Yeah.

You know, I miss that aspect.

I really do.

I mean, the technical aspect of it, you know, And, you know, the clinic work, but, you know, I don't necessarily miss, you know, lot of the other stuff managing.

And, you know, I was more into just doing the dentistry.

So retirement on a scale of 1 to 10 for you is a what.

I'd say nine or ten.

Wow.

I've I've talked to a lot of guys who call me up after they've been out of the loop high achievers saying “Skubick, I'm bored out of my mind.” You know, being married to the governor, it's hard to get bored.

Well, he' he gets so interested in things.

You know, he's become an expert in so many different things because he gets, like, excited about something.

Then he reads everything he can find.

So he loves his guitars.

That's what you just sai is going to be my my struggle.

I need people.

I need stuff to do.

And so and I don't have you know.

What?

You thrive on it.

He's smart enough not to do that.

Yeah, Why?

I love people.

I get energy from it.

I, you know, feel.

I got Jim Blan- former Governor Blanchard.

I remember when he came in, I said, What do you like?

He said, I Iove working crowds.

Yeah, I get energy from that.

Are you like that?

I am.

You know, your energy from working the crowd, Nah, no.

Yeah, exactly.

Zero.

Marcs a behind the scenes guy.

He's come to big events with m and he'll bring a book with him and sometimes he'll sit in a corner.

Man, I was walking through our Democratic conventio when I first ran for governor, and we had a marching band with us, and he was holed up in a corner reading, a big, you know, history book.

We're walking around with the marching band, and that's what he's doing.

When why don't you try it?

Try becoming more engaged with more a lot of people.

I have I mean, I do things, you know.

I do things.

We do enough.

This is his big thing for the year.

I would show you.

And I have.

Neither of us have a life.

So what did you do for fun?

What did I do?

well, you know, I visited family a lot.

I, you know, I d a lot of things up to Mackinaw.

All of the Michigan summer.

Good books that you've read.

Well, you know, I've actually cut back on the reading, you know.

Well, of course, True Gretch, but yeah.

Governor, we already established that 5 minutes ago.

Well, right now I'm trying to.

I'm trying to register an apology for getting you into trouble.

Favorite favorite sports team in our state.

Well.

You know, the Lions, no question.

You know, I well, you know Spartans, you know Wolverines.

Yeah.

what do you think about you Wolverines planting that flag?

Well, you know what are you going to do know.

I mean, at leas they won that game and that was.

You know.

Did you notice the front there, Governor?

What what did you make of it?

I mean, you know, I was glad they won the game becaus Mike DeWine has to pay up again.

What's the best thing he's sending you?

I don't know what he sent in this year, but the first year I got a bunch of Buckeyes, which it was fun to eat.

Buckeyes.

Good.

A food taster.

And they're delicious.

Yeah, probably.

Good idea.

So what did the two fun for fun together?

What was your time to do that?

I, I this was a very busy year, so we didn't, we didn't get as much time together, but we love to get outside and walk the dogs.

Hi guys!

Kevin and Dougie.

Yup.

So, Dougie is the dark dog and Kevin is the khaki canine.

That's This holiday with our family grew two years ago when I finally got my act together and got a stocking for Hannah our daughte in-law whos having the grandbaby And we know if it's a boy or girl.

They don't know.

They don't want to, do they?

They don't want to kno How you do, though, don't you?

I wish.

Don't you go, Governor?

I don't know.

I Never knew the gender of my kids before I had them.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Everyone's different, so I don't.

So we got Hannah's.

Coming, Hannah, and then I never got seconds for Kevin and Doug.

So.

And what are you giving them?

What?

I' sure heard.

Of the first dogs.

Don't they have everything?

They do, but they still get little Christmas presents.

This is just.

Fabulous.

Kevin.

He walked you up the hill.

He will.

Not you, Kevin.

Six demographics.

You guys watch.

They got good eye contact.

They're good boys They like people, too.

They do.

And any time away, are you going to, you know, without disclosing?

No, I We're just going to ge some downtime over the holidays.

I'm excited about that, Sherys in the application process for law school.

So she also law school next year and we're saying he'll graduate in the spring.

So it's going to be another big year.

How did that go then, going down you about how did you handle that?

That was great.

I was just glad they, you know, stayed in state, but by that tim was coming to a close, I fear.

I think she will probably go out of state for.

Law school at the end of the day.

Can you both say you're still having fun?

Yes.

yeah, absolutely.

People say if it stops being fun, stop doing it.

And we're still you know, we're we're very happy.

Like it's home.

It's good.

It's a refuge because he's not all in politics.

And I've been in the business all the time.

It's like it's a that works.

It works.

That's good.

Glad We're out of time.

Thank you both.

Thank you for doing this again.

We're two more to go and then you've done it with me again.

You're free.

And Governor, thank you for your time.

You guys have a blessed holiday.

Okay.

Thanks to you, too.

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