(upbeat music) - Welcome to Shades of Black, Inside The Black Vote, part two.

I'm Christopher Norris, WHYY's community contributors and engagement editor.

In this episode, we will continue to explore the motivations and expectations of black voters.

We are joined again by Kenny Cooper, WHYY's suburban reporter, James Williams, publisher of the Uptown Standard Newspaper, Jasmine Sessoms, founder of She Can Win, and Emma Tramble, founder of My Family Votes.

My illustrious panel is back and ready for another round of great conversation.

Thank you all for joining me.

Emma and Jasmine, I'd like to start with you guys.

In the terms of both imagery and initiative, what do you think will be the short-term and long-term impact of Kamala Harris's presidency on black women and girls?

- First of all, you can't really tell us black girls nothing right now, especially if you are in a sorority, a.k.a like myself, and especially if you went to an HBCU like myself, we are on cloud nine.

But it's so much bigger than that, than just being a black girl in a sorority that goes to an HBCU.

It's about representation matters.

I'll tell you a very quick story.

My six year old comes in, obviously she knows that Kamala Harris is our vice president.

She said, "Mom, I can be president."

If you go on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram and put in the hashtag, #MyVPlookslikeme, you will see a whole slew of little black girls and black women that are wearing that T-shirt, holding that sign, because there's a sense of pride.

For so long we have been shut out of the system.

For so long we have been left away from the table.

And as Shirley Chisholm said, bring your folding chair.

Well, not only did Kamala bring the folding chair, she brought the whole table, okay?

The table, black women have been the table for so long, America is just now catching up and starting to quote unquote, validate us.

But we didn't need that validation.

You understand me, Chris?

Emma, I see you shaking your head, you get it.

We didn't need their validation because we've been door-knocking, we've been voting, we've been bringing our mamas, cousins, sisters, husbands, to the polls with us.

America is just catching up.

It means so much to see that African-American woman who is sitting in the second highest office in the land and it lets us know, we can do it.

You guys now see that we can do it and we are now demanding our rightful place at the table to change laws, make laws, vote, lead organizations, turn states blue or red, whatever we feel, because black people are not a monolith, and especially black women.

So having that symbol, and again, Kamala's gonna do the work.

She is not just a symbolic leader.

She is going to do the work because black women lead and black women get it done.

But Chris, it means the world right now in 2021 to have a woman that looks like us seating in the second highest office in the land.

Again, my VP looks like me.

- Emma?

- So for me, because I do, I talk to people on all different sides of how they feel about Kamala Harris and her victory.

One of the things that I would like to see us do, we can tend not to do, if we liked candidates, is, first we need to celebrate, like Jasmine's saying, you know, people had their pearls and chucks and whatever else they had going on, we need to start educating people about issues, and then we need to agitate.

So no matter the fact that our VP looks like us, if there is an issue on the table that impacts black people and we need to know, she's got our back, right?

So whatever that means, whether she's an advocate or black women have to push.

So it's an opportunity for us to be joyful, and us to be strong in our different way.

So, if we have to push, we'll push.

If we have to pull, we'll pull.

And if we have to lift up, we will lift up.

But this is an opportunity for us to say, no matter who's in the White House, no matter who is the vice president, we are gonna demand what we need.

So, it's a wonderful opportunity for black girls to see like, oh, we can even disagree with our vice president.

But we still will respect her.

And so I think it's an opportunity to do a lot of things.

I like to see that because a lot of what I have been witnessing over throughout the years is, if a candidate looks like us or an office holder looks like us, we don't tend to hold them accountable as much, your like, oh, well.

You know, I happen to realize during the Obama administration, we're like, well what could he have done?

Like, you know what, look what Donald Trump used his position as a bully pulpit.

And that's what we need more.

- Can I just jump in really quick?

- Ow please, absolutely.

- I actually disagree with you, Emma.

I think we are harder on black legislators than what we are on our white counterparts.

Literally, I have, I can't tell you how many times I've heard Obama did nothing for black people.

I can't tell you how many times I go to City Hall and they are side eyeing, not every black council person, every black state legislator, because they always say, well how are you not getting such and such, such and such, such and such done, a laundry list of things, right?

And they, I do feel like we hold our black elected officials at a much higher standard than what we do our white ones.

We claim onus to them and we want them to only be our legislator.

And I had a conversation not too long ago about the Obama administration.

And I said he wasn't a president just for black people.

He was president for all people, right?

So when you say he hasn't done much for black people, well let's look at his overall track record and see what he has done.

I think we are actually a lot harder on our black elected officials, and that's coming from someone that helps black women get elected.

If you could see my inbox, you would be appalled at the things that we say about our black women elected officials.

I mean, truly just appalled.

- Right, I think it's a combination, if that were so, in Philly, a lot of our elected officials would be white, right?

And then there were a lot of white candidates going up against people who've been in office for decades and they are not winning, right.

So it's not just that we, a lot of politicians take a lot of grief, but I think it's, it depends on who you're talking to.

Some people love their state senator.

They'd do anything for their state senator and there are others who want them out of office as soon as possible.

So voters are quite nuance and there are some that are angry because of a particular issue.

And they feel identification on is a big one that a lot of black voters are like, you're just letting me developer run rough shot over us but (indistinct mumbling) - This is an interesting conversation point, Emma, that you and Jasmine have brought up.

And I do wanna bring Kenny and James into the conversation as well.

James, respond to what you've heard.

I mean, are we too hard on our black officials?

Are we not hard enough?

- I think we're way too hard on our black elected officials.

- Wow.

- And look from working with campaigns and from working in the City Hall and even from running a newspaper right now, which I do, I see it all the time, and I talked to a lot of black elected officials especially here in the Northwest section of Philadelphia, right.

And we're very hard on them, right.

But the Segway on that, the reason why we don't see a lot more white elected officials, even though we're, let's say upset with our black officials is because the numbers don't support white officials getting elected in Philadelphia, right.

The numbers don't support it.

We're a city that's 44% African-American.

And to ad that, the majority of your super voters are coming from the majority, from the Northwest which is the African-American stronghold, right.

So just go with a number.

Since 1950, the 50th ward and the 10th ward has determined who's the mayor of Philadelphia, right, so if you can't crack that fortress, if you can't crack that line, then it doesn't matter, right?

Even if you look in South Philadelphia, with Kiata Johnson, I mean you would think he would have a lot harder time to get elected, but no, he's not because the demographics support him, but here's the thing.

We always hold our own people more accountable, and we should, right?

We should, because we put them in there, right.

Because they wouldn't have won without the black vote.

If you think Kiata Johnson is getting votes on the other side of broad street, outside of the 48th ward and the 36th ward and the 30th ward and you think he's getting votes over in Pasial in the agenol state, you're crazy.

You can look at the numbers and the supports and shows you where he wins, right?

If you look at Jim Kenney's election, you can see where he won.

He didn't win in the white neighborhoods.

He won because the black elected officials in the Northwest, the Sherrill Parkers, the Marian Tascos the Sydney Basses, all got behind him, right.

The Rosita Young Bloods.

They pushed him across the finish line.

The black vote in Philadelphia determines everything.

So we therefore should hold them more accountable because we're the ones putting them in there.

- Emma, I'm gonna give you a chance to respond to that.

But I just like to bring Kenny into and have him a chance to say, Kenny should we be holding our black politicians to a higher standard because they get so, a big portion of the black vote?

- Speaking of someone that's a resident of Montgomery County, I can't necessarily speak to Philadelphia in and of itself just because I'm not a resident of Philadelphia, but to kind of speak on, on that about holding someone more or less accountable.

I don't think that we should hold them more or less accountable.

Like, I think that we should hold them equally accountable as their white counterparts or their Latin X counterparts or whomever.

I just think that at the end of the day, kind of, to threat the needle that Jasmine and I, Emma were both talking about is the importance of, of representation, but also the limitations of it.

I was young when Obama was elected and I kind of reap the benefits of having a black man as the president of the United States and I've reaped the benefits of the representation, but at the same time to to kind of thread the needle that Emma was talking about is after like, as I was growing up and I got more educated on issues and all those things like that, you kind of have to kind of stop yourself, like limit, like you have to kind of stop yourself, as letting representation and carry the entire tour.

It's like, there has to be some substance behind it.

And ultimately that's ultimately what it is.

It's the balance between representation mattering and also getting some things done and also being a civics lesson, about the limitations of the federal government, how much an individual one seat can do.

It's ultimately what it is.

And for some voters, they don't know that there's a checks and balances that happen behind the scenes and that this Congress person can only get one thing done.

They're only one vote.

This council member can only get one thing done if they're in opposite, if they're facing opposition.

Whether you're in the Senate chamber or your in the house of representatives, there are limitations to what you can do.

And ultimately that's what happens.

It's those three things realizing, the benefits of representation is limitations, becoming responsive and being an agitator.

And also at the end of the day, just understanding that it's ultimately a civics lesson growing up, that there are limitations to what individual elected leaders can do.

- Emma, 60 seconds, I have a few other questions I wanna get to, 60 seconds to respond.

- So the numbers and the political sentiment is shifting from the data, says it, there are also wards that are up in coming, first ward, 46th ward, shout 'cause I live in the 46th, are moving and they are not necessarily dominated by black voters, but black voters either are virality and black voters are shifting.

They are tired of party politics, business as usual and candidates who have been doing business as usual should be starting to be afraid of the primary and parties like Working Family Party in the general.

- I appreciate that.

According to a CNN exit poll, 36% of democratic voters rate, excuse me, 36% of democratic voters ranked racial inequality as their number one issue followed by the Corona virus at 27%.

My question to you, starting to the panel, starting with James, what are some of the core issues that motivated you to the polls in 2020?

And what are the core issues that motivate you to the polls in general?

- Okay, so 2020, it was a little different for me.

For me, I was a history major in college, right.

And my concentration was Nazi Germany and I saw too many parallels of this administrations and what I was learning about fascism but more importantly about the rise of Hitler, you know, and that was what motivated me.

It wasn't the policies.

I mean, at the end of the day, a mop could have ran against Trump, for me, I saw a leader who was going to become a fascist.

And I tell people that, if you think he had a hard time leaving office now, do you think it was going to be hard for him to leave at eight years?

Do you think it would have been, in eight years he wouldn't have lost.

I mean, he would have lost it.

He would have had to leave but he would have stayed in, you know, and being a part.

And, you know, I didn't delete all of my Republican friends off of social media when I left the party I still keep them on my page, you know, they did a study.

Well, I talked to political in 2016 and they, they asked me how many people do I know who support Trump?

And I said, uniquely, all my social media page, one day I went to my, I clicked the Hillary Clinton page, right.

And half of my friends were following Hillary Clinton, and half of my friends was following Donald Trump, right.

So I knew I had like right there, I was in the middle.

So my Facebook feed was telling me a lot.

And I could see the Trump supporters realizing that they didn't want a president, they wanted a King, right.

They wanted a King.

So therefore it was more important for me to see him lose because of that.

You know, it wasn't about policy at all.

I mean, I've always liked Joe Biden.

You know, my family's from the Eastern Shore of Maryland.

So I would always ride through Delaware.

One of the first billboards I saw was a Joe Biden billboard you know, back in the early eighties, you know, so I've always been aware of Joe Biden and who he is but I saw something different in this election, compared to anything else I've ever saw in the course of American history.

I mean, we were approaching a point that, that Italy went through what Mussolini.

We were closer to a point that Germany went through with Hitler.

And the similarities were just too close to me that it was more, so this was about the democracy and not about who's gonna be president.

And that's what drove me to the polls.

And I began to energize and organize my friends in that way.

But the main thing I talked to my close friends were about like, hey it's not about your vote.

You also need to donate to these candidates.

You know, and all my friends donated to Joe Biden, all my friends, we live in Philadelphia, we're all from the 50th ward.

They all donated to AOC.

We donated the across the country to different politicians and we did it in an organized fashion because we wanted to make sure that we thought Lindsey Graham was gonna lose.

But we donated to Jamie, we donated across the board.

We got on the phone when we talked to our friends and our family members from other States to donate not just to vote, but also to donate because, if Trump won we needed a Democrat Senate and a Democrat house.

- Thank you for that.

And just for our viewers, AOC is Alexandra Ocasio Cortez.

Jasmine, what about you?

What motivated you to go to the polls in 2020?

- The same thing that has motivated me since I've been 18, people that look like me could not vote.

People died for me to be able to vote.

I have been voting with my parents.

They used to take me to the polls.

My nanny used to take me to the polls.

Voting is within, is just in me.

It would feel weird not to vote.

So, but I'll split the question because, you know I was gonna vote regardless.

So, you know what I mean like, people died for my right to vote.

I would never not vote, that is just disrespectful.

My parents grew up in a time where black people could not vote.

So, you know, I just wanna make that very, very clear, but what motivated me to get others and really organize not just here in Philly, but across our Commonwealth, was this election just felt different.

It truly felt like we were fighting for the democracy.

And I know how dramatic that sounds, but it really felt like democracy was dying under the weight of the Trump administration.

And me as a person that has a platform and has a voice, I could not, not organize others.

I could not do what I was supposed to do or what I was allowed to do or what was in my power to do to organize and turn out the vote.

That's truly what motivated me to go to Pittsburgh, to go to Erie, to go to Allentown because it's not comfortable for black people out there.

It does not look like us.

They are not friendly to us, because let's be clear.

Pennsylvania is like pretty much red.

It didn't matter to me though.

I was gonna door knock safely, lit drop safely because it felt so important.

More so than any other election I've ever participated in, this election literally felt like life and death.

And look what happened on January 6th, life and death actually happened.

We actually fought for the democracy.

So there was no sitting at home or not turning out the vote for me.

That just was not an option.

- I appreciate that.

Kenny Cooper, what motivated you to the polls in 2020 and why is sitting it out an option for you?

- I can't sit out, kind of like what Jasmine was saying.

Voting is kind of in me, my mom, my dad, I've gone to vote with them since I was able to go and vote with them.

I may not I've gone necessarily inside the booth but that was definitely in the car during those trips to go vote, and being someone that just graduated from college in may and has kind of been working and living from home.

My mom made sure to wake me up bright and early on election day, when I say bright and early, I mean five o'clock in the morning.

- Wow God bless her.

- To kind of be ready to vote and sure enough, that's what I went to go do.

So I guess at this point, it's kind of like a reflex, voting is like a reflex.

Now in terms of the issue, is kind of like what everyone was saying.

It's just the moment that we're living in, of course, you can't kind of turn down the ability to kind of have an impact on one of the most consequential elections in American history.

So at the end of the day, that's also what happened.

And speaking from someone that's kind of in my generation as a very young voter, there was something, a comment that I saw a lot of young people making, during the time it kind of stuck with me.

And it was just talking about how, like the kids that were like actual kids when Trayvon Martin was shot and killed, they are now voters now.

And for some of them, even though my first election was back in, I want to say 2018 was, 2016, 2018.

I can't remember which election I posted first voted in.

I believe it was 2016, but yeah, 2016, that was my first election.

But for some others that were younger, this was their first election.

So I think those are the things that kind of, kind of stick in people's minds is that, there are these very recent events and for young people that have who kind of, kind of clung to those events as their kind of first political awakening, their first thing to kind of get them involved with, whether it be politics or the activism behind politics.

This election was kind of the catalyst or not the catalyst,.

the combination of those things that we've been seeing In the news over the past eight years.

- I appreciate that, Emma, I imagined it was the same for you, the need to save democracy.

- Well, democracy has needed saving for quite some time.

I just think it became more obvious.

One of the things is, I think we take a grant, for me, when we talk about our ancestors is, our ancestors were very strategic fellows, right, They were, like, my family has been in Pennsylvania since the late 1800s.

So they were part of like that really early migration.

And so they've been voting for a very long time.

And one of the things is, is that we cannot, we can't just use that our ancestors voted so you should vote, 'cause it doesn't seem real, right.

And we have to make everything real.

And I think he got really real for people this year but that doesn't mean it sustainable.

And so for me, I've struggled.

I mean, I work in the industry where I get people out to vote, where 2016, I was like, would it matter if I didn't vote for president?

And there are a lot of voters like me who vote all the time, who are questioning, and not all teenagers, you know just turning 18 or 18, 25 (indistinct mumbling).

A lot of older voters need to be motivated and we need to not just be motivated out of fear, we need to be moving towards expert, something big like make America great is an aspirational phrase, it means different things to different people.

We had to come up on the other side with something like, something bold and big and to keep us moving to those polls.

So for me, one of the things is judges.

The power of the federal bench is frightening, not just the Supreme court, but how those, how, you know, the district courts, how they kept weighing in on the election stuff and evictions.

And I was like, if they had made that clear in 2016, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

So we definitely, you know, it's wonderful, lets celebrate everybody, but we can't just be reacting out of fear.

We have got to put some might behind everything.

- That's a powerful statement Emma, I appreciate that.

We only have a few minutes left and I'd like to go around, starting with Jasmine, and and ask just a very simple question, given what we see going on in the world, as it pertains to racial injustice, police brutality, gentrification, the kind of injustices we decry as black voters, all the time.

What keeps you motivated, what gives you hope?

That's the same question we're gonna end on, starting with you, Jasmine, what gives you hope?

- My baby's giving me hope.

You know, we gotta to keep fight, I got a six year old and a four year old, two little black brown girls.

And they, everyday they give me hope to make our country a better place for them.

I do not want them to go through the same struggles that I went through.

So people like Emma, James and Kenny are just so important and so vital to the system.

And I just want to say to each and every one of you I see you.

I know how hard you guys are working.

And I am just so appreciative of each of you.

Thank you for making a better place for Jay and Jace.

- Wow.

Wow, Kenny.

- I think what gives me hope is kind of looking around at, kind of like what Jasmine was saying, kind of looking around at everyone and just knowing how hard they work to kind of keep us in play at this moment.

And I think also kind of like looking around at my peers and just knowing how active they are in voting and and all those things and, and activism and different types of issues, whether it be criminal justice reform or immigrants rights and issues like that.

And advocacy, I think that's what kind of gives me hope, is the fact that people are, put so much on the line and dedicate so much time to solving these, what feel like impossible issues to solve, what feel like issues that we've been talking about for years and years and years at a time when I was just sitting down as a kid, just like watching the news and maybe arguing about the same issues that my friends are just getting kind of involved with now.

So I think that's what gives me hope.

And also just kind of looking around at, my community at large.

I mean, I live in Montgomery County and Montgomery County is mostly white, and kind of just seeing places for the first time, engage in protest and activism is shocking.

Now that may be kind of bare minimum thinking, just saying, like about time, that's kind of the gist that I got from some residents that I've spoke to about kind of, unlikely places, engaging in protest, but ultimately it can be like about, you can think about time, but also just kind of revel in the moment like wow.

Like for the first time it would feels like forever.

A lot of people have finally taken notice to the issues going on.

- Thank you for that Kenny James Williams and then Emma, we have about 60 seconds left.

What gives you hope?

- Well, you know, I was raised by my grandma.

I mean, both parents in the house when my grandma was here, she was, she was born in the early 1900s and on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and she moved to Philadelphia because of everything that was happening to Maryland.

And I just believe that we are an evolving country and we continue to evolve.

And it's very important for everyone to do their part, to help the evolution.

We've changed so much in the last a hundred years, just you know, from where we've come as a country now and especially as black people to where we're at today.

Right and I'm hopeful because of the fact that I've seen so many great leaders over time come up.

And I just think everybody has their part to do to continue to the ball rolling.

Like we're like a juggernaut, right?

Like it was a juggernaut stops, rope starts rolling.

It can't stop.

But the juggernaut always has to have something to build energy off of, right.

So people like us are the energy.

Like people like us are to energy that keeps that juggernaut out rolling.

And I'm just glad to do my part to be part of the system, to help other people get involved to get motivated so that we can keep that juggernaut moving.

- Thank you so much, Emma Tramble.

You have the last words.

- I'm hopeful because people are hungry for information about how they can make a difference.

At every price, at every price point in every age.

And it's exciting to see intergenerational work.

And I just want us to stay fired up and just keep moving every election moving forward, whether it's the dog catcher all the way up to the friend.

- I appreciate that, Kenny Cooper is a graduate of Temple University and currently serving as WHYY suburban reporter.

James Williams is the publisher of the Uptown Standard Newspaper and a former member of the GOP.

Emma Tramble is a community and voter engagement strategists who founded My Family Votes.

And Jasmine Sessoms is the owner and founder of She Can Win.

You guys are the real deal, and I appreciate you taking the time to join this conversation, thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you for watching Shades of Black, Inside the Black Vote.

If you have thoughts and commentary about the topics we covered on the program, we'd love to hear from you email us at talkback@whyy.org.

This conversation is just getting started.

Until next time for WHYY, I'm Christopher Norris, goodbye.

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