S S >>> THE NEBRASKA LEGISLATURE COMPLETED ONE OF ITS MOST CONTENTIOUS TASKS Last week: REDISTRICTING.

WHAT WILL BE THE IMPACT ON OUR STATE AND HOW COULD IT CHANGE OUR ELECTIONS?

PLUS THE LATEST ON COVID-19.

THAT'S TONIGHT ON "SPEAKING OF NEBRASKA."

S S >> THANKS FOR JOINING US ON "SPEAKING OF NEBRASKA."

I'M NEBRASKA PUBLIC MEDIA NEWS DIRECTOR, DENNIS KELLOGG.

THE 2020 CENSUS TOLD US NEBRASKA'S URBAN AND RURAL DIVIDE ONLY WIDENED.

IN A SPECIAL SESSION THE OFFICIALLY PARTISANSHIP UNICAMERAL HAD TO ADJUST FOR THAT CHANGE IN POPULATION.

THE LEGISLATURE PASSED SIX NEW MAPS THAT WILL SERVE AS GUIDES TO NEBRASKA ELECTIONS FOR THE NEXT DECADE.

PUBLIC HEARINGS WERE HELD AND DEBATE WAS PLENTIFUL.

TONIGHT, WE'LL DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE TWO SENATORS IN CHARGE OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE WHO CAME AT IT FROM OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE POLITICAL AISLE.

BUT FIRST, FOR MORE ON WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST WEEKS AT THE STATE CAPITOL HERE'S NEBRASKA PUBLIC MEDIA NEWS LEGISLATIVE REPORTER FRED KNAPP.

>> WHAT'S REALLY STRIKING ABOUT THIS SESSION WAS THE COMPRESSED TIMEFRAME.

USUALLY THE LEGISLATURE GETS THE CENSUS RESULTS IN JANUARY AND THEY HAVE ALL SESSION TO MAKE THEIR DECISIONS.

THIS TIME, BECAUSE OF COVID THEY DIDN'T GET THE RESULTS UNTIL AUGUST SO THEY HAD A TWO-WEEK SPECIAL SESSION TO GET ALL THEIR WORK DONE.

SPEAKER HILGERS EVEN AT ONE POINT THREATENED TO CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF AND MAKE THEM DO IT IN JANUARY WHICH WOULD HAVE POSTPONED THE MAY PRIMARY ELECTION.

WELL, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THE BIG CONTROVERSY CENTERED ON THE OMAHA AREA SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT WHICH IS COMPETITIVE BOTH FOR CONGRESS AND FOR THE SO-CALLED "BLUE DOT," THE ONE ELECTORAL VOTE THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE ACTUALLY EKED OUT IN AN OTHERWISE RED STATE.

IN 2020, JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE IN THE SECOND DISTRICT BY ABOUT 22,000 VOTES.

SENATOR LINEHAN PRODUCED A MAP THAT WOULD HAVE DECREASED THAT BY ABOUT 6,000.

SENATOR WAYNE, THE DEMOCRATIC VICE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE OFFERED A MAP THAT WOULD HAVE INCREASED IT BY ABOUT 7,500.

WHAT EVENTUALLY RESULTED WAS A MAP THAT BY MY CALCULATION WOULD HAVE DECREASED BIDEN'S LEAD BY ABOUT 2000.

WOULDN'T HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME IN THIS CASE BUT COULD BE SIGNIFICANT FOR FUTURE ELECTIONS.

S S >>> JOINING US NOW THE CHAIR OF THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE SENATOR LOU ANN LINEHAN OF ELKHORN AND THE VICE CHAIR OF THAT SAME COMMITTEE SENATOR JUSTIN WAYNE OF OMAHA.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE WITH US ON "SPEAKING OF NEBRASKA."

I WANT TO ASK YOU.

YOU KNOW THIS IS A PROCESS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT REDISTRICTING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE -- IT NORMALLY TAKES THE ENTIRE SESSION OR A LOT OF THE SESSION.

THIS TIME BECAUSE OF THE DELAY IN THE CENSUS DATA WE HAD TO DO IT IN THREE WEEKS OR MAYBE A LITTLE MORE.

HOW DID YOU THINK IT CAME OUT?

WHAT IS YOUR OVERALL GRADE ON IT?

>> I THINK WE DID A FINE JOB.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT BUT THE OTHER THING WHEN YOU ARE IN SESSION AND HAVE THE WHOLE SESSION YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF OTHER BALLS TO HANDLE.

THIS WAS THE ONLY THING WE HAD TO DO, SO PEOPLE WERE FOCUSED.

SO I THINK THREE WEEKS WAS LONG ENOUGH.

( chuckles ) >> AND YOU'RE SATISFIED WITH THE OUTCOME?

>> I AM SATISFIED WITH THE OUTCOME.

>> SENATOR WAYNE YOU CALLED IT THE MOST TRANSPARENT REDISTRICTING PROCESS IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY.

WHY DID YOU THINK THAT?

>> I THOUGHT THAT BECAUSE OF THE DATA WE PUT OUT.

I MEAN, ALTHOUGH WE TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY IT IS ABOUT GETTING DATA OUT AND WE GOT THE DATA OUT.

WE PUT IT ON THE INTERNET.

WE GOT IT OUT.

NOW, THERE MIGHT BE ISSUES ABOUT HOW LONG IT WAS OUT THERE BECAUSE MAPS WERE CHANGING AND THE PUBLIC MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO DIGEST IT BUT IF THEY WERE LOOKING AT THEIR DISTRICT, THEY HAD TIME TO DIGEST IT.

WE HAD A WHOLE WEEKEND AND PLUS ANOTHER ADDITIONAL MONDAY SO WE HAD ABOUT 72 HOURS FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THEIR DISTRICT WE GOT A LOT OF FEEDBACK WE MADE SMALL TECHNICAL CHANGES EXCEPT FOR ONE AREA BUT OVERALL, IT WAS TRANSPARENT AND PART OF IT IS BECAUSE I WATCHED THE LAST PROCESS TEN YEARS AGO AND THERE WASN'T -- EVERYTHING WAS DONE IN CLOSED SESSION.

WE WERE THE FIRST GROUP TO DO PRETTY MUCH EXCEPT FOR OUR FIRST MEETING EVERYTHING WAS IN A REGULAR SESSION SO COMMITTEES COULD SEE -- THE PUBLIC COULD BE THERE TO WATCH THE COMMITTEES INTERACT.

AND AGAIN, THE DATA.

WE HAD MORE DATA, SHAPE FILES WE HAD EVERYTHING OUT ON THE INTERNET.

NOW, COULD WE TEN YEARS FROM NOW ABSOLUTELY DO BETTER?

I BELIEVE SO BUT LOOKING BACK HISTORICALLY THIS WAS THE MOST TRANSPARENT.

>> IN THE END CAN YOU SAY YOU'RE SATISFIED?

>> I'M SATISFIED WITH WHERE WE CAME OUT AT.

I THINK WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT THEIR DISTRICTS AND WHAT WE TRY TO DO AS FAR AS PRESERVING COMMUNITY INTEREST AND PRESERVING THE CORE I THINK WE DID A GOOD JOB.

>> SO, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AND LET'S START WITH THE U.S. CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

NEBRASKA HAS THREE.

THE FIRST REPRESENTS MUCH OF EASTERN NEBRASKA INCLUDING LINCOLN, FREMONT COLUMBUS, AND NORFOLK.

THE SECOND HOME TO OMAHA.

THE THIRD THE REST OF THE STATE.

THE LARGEST CAME IN SECOND WHERE SAUNDERS COUNTY WAS ADDED TO THE SECOND AND MUCH OF SARPY COUNTY WAS PLACED INTO THE FIRST DISTRICT, SO SENATOR LINEHAN WAS THERE EVER A POINT IN THE PROCESS WHERE YOU THOUGHT YOU WOULDN'T GET IT DONE?

THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO GET TO THE FINISH LINE?

THAT WE COULDN'T REACH THAT ULTIMATE COMPROMISE?

>> OH YEAH, THERE WERE MOMENTS LIKE THAT, BUT IT WASN'T WITHIN THE COMMITTEE.

IT WAS -- THE COMMITTEE I ALWAYS THOUGHT WAS UP TO THE TASK, BUT IT IS KEEPING EVERYBODY ELSE INFORMED AND KEEPING THEM INFORMED OF WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON VERSUS ALL THE RUMORS WHICH IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THERE WERE NINE ON THE COMMITTEE BUT 40 OTHER SENATORS AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS WE NEEDED TO CONVERSE WITH, SO THAT IT WAS -- I THOUGHT WE COULD GET IT DONE AND I ALWAYS HAD GREAT CONFIDENCE IN SENATOR WAYNE'S ABILITY FOR US TO GET IT DONE.

>> SHE HAD CONFIDENCE IN YOU.

DID YOU THINK IT WAS GOING TO GET IT DONE?

>> I HAD CONFIDENCE IN CHAIRWOMAN LINEHAN.

THE ISSUE FOR US WAS THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS.

THE CONGRESSIONAL MAPS IT WAS CLEAR WE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY WHEN WE WENT AROUND THE STATE THAT THEY WANTED TO KEEP DOUGLAS COUNTY WHOLE AND MINIMIZE AS MUCH AS WE COULD TO SPLIT SARPY COUNTY.

THAT WAS A FAIR COMPROMISE WITH THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP AS WE ACHIEVED WHAT I WOULD SAY OUR GOAL OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTED TO KEEP DOUGLAS COUNTY WHOLE.

THAT WAS THE MAIN FOCUS AND THAT'S WHAT WE ACHIEVED.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ALSO, THIS IS A NONPARTISAN UNICAMERAL.

DO YOU THINK THE PROCESS IN THE END WAS PARTISANSHIP BIPARTISAN, OR DID POLITICS END UP COMING INTO PLAY?

>> REDISTRICTING ITSELF ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS THE MOST POLITICAL THING YOU CAN DO.

BUT, WHAT YOU SAW, I THINK OUT OF BOTH MAPS WAS PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE VOTING FOR THEM.

I THINK THAT SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS SOME NONPARTISANS IN SOME NATURE BUT THE REALITY IS THERE'S NO WAY FOR YOU TO GET COMMUNITY INPUT AND NOT BE PARTISAN.

YOU CAN'T LOOK AT SOMEBODY AND WE HAD ONE PERSON SHOW UP WITH A POLITICAL SHIRT ON.

DO WE JUST DISCOUNT THEIR TESTIMONY OF WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A POLITICAL AFFILIATION?

I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR.

I THINK THE PROCESS AND THE COMMUNITY INPUT EVEN IF IT WAS TOTALLY INDEPENDENT, HAS POLITICS IN IT JUST BY THE NATURE OF BEING TRANSPARENT TO THE COMMUNITY AND GETTING COMMUNITY INPUT BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY ITSELF ARE INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

>> EVEN THOUGH THE UNICAMERAL IS NONPARTISAN, SENATOR WAYNE IS A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT SENATOR LINEHAN A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN.

SENATOR LINEHAN DID YOU FEEL LIKE IT WAS IN THE END AS BIPARTISAN AS IT POSSIBLY COULD BE?

>> I THINK WHEN WE GOT TO THE END, IT WAS, YES.

BUT AS SENATOR WAYNE HAS SAID IT IS PARTISAN BY ITS VERY NATURE.

IT ALWAYS IS PARTISAN AND YOU CAN'T -- I MEAN, OUR HEARINGS WE HEARD ABOUT "THE BLUE DOT," "THE BLUE DOT."

SO IT WASN'T -- THE PUBLIC IS PARTISAN PROBABLY MORE NOW TODAY THAN IT'S EVER BEEN IN MY LIFETIME.

MORE LIKE HARDLINE "I'M A DEMOCRAT," "I'M A REPUBLICAN."

SO IT'S HARD FOR THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU CAN'T IGNORE THAT IF YOU ARE IN POLITICAL OFFICE.

YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE REALITIES THAT'S GOING ON IN NEBRASKA AND AROUND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

>> JUST TO PIGGY BACK OFF THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT PARTIES ARE A COLLECTION OF IDEAS.

LIKE A MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS THAT YOU BELIEVE IN.

THAT'S WHAT YOU SIGN UP FOR.

IF WE WERE TRULY NONPARTISAN THEN WE WOULD ALL HAVE TO RE-WIN OUR ELECTION AND CHANGE TO INDEPENDENT.

NOBODY IN THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE THAT.

THE ONLY PERSON WHO'S RAN INDEPENDENT IN THE LAST 40 YEARS WAS SENATOR CHAMBERS WHO WAS THERE SO WE COME INTO IT WITH POLITICS, BUT FOR US IT WAS TRULY ABOUT PRESERVING THE CORE AND KEEPING THE COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST.

IF YOU CAN DO THAT, THAT IS HOW I THINK AT THE END WE GOT AROUND THE PARTISANSHIP.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE GOT TO THAT COMPROMISE PROPOSAL.

SENATOR LINEHAN YOUR ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WOULD HAVE KEPT SARPY COUNTY WHOLE BUT CUT DOUGLAS COUNTY.

IT DIDN'T OVERCOME THE FILIBUSTER.

DOUGLAS COUNTY HADN'T BEEN SPLIT BEFORE.

WHY WAS THAT THE PREFERRED OPTION FOR YOU?

>> WELL, IT WAS -- DOUGLAS COUNTY, THE GROWTH THERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE IT MAY AT SOME POINT BE ENOUGH TO BE A WHOLE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AND I DID FEEL -- I DIDN'T GROW UP -- I LIVE IN DOUGLAS COUNTY NOW.

I DIDN'T GROW UP THERE.

IT WAS KIND OF THE THING THAT WELL, I THINK IT WAS ONE OF THE EDITORIALS, THE REST OF IT.

I DO FEEL SORRY FOR ALL THE OTHER COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF NEBRASKA WHEN ONE COUNTY SEEMS TO BE SO DOMINANT AND I DO THINK SARPY COUNTY HAD A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT THAT SOMEHOW THEY CAN BE CHOPPED UP TEN DIFFERENT WAYS BUT WE CAN'T TOUCH DOUGLAS COUNTY SO I THOUGHT IT WAS WORTH LOOKING AT.

CLEARLY, THE PUBLIC DID NOT LIKE THAT IDEA SO I THINK THAT'S WHY WE CAME BACK WITH THE NEXT MAP.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE THE COMMITTEE HEARD HEARINGS ACROSS THE STATE AND IN THE OMAHA HAERING YOU HEARD A LOT OF TESTIFIERS SAYING, "DON'T SPLIT DOUGLAS COUNTY."

HOW MUCH DID THAT TESTIMONY PLAY INTO YOUR DECISION TO MOVE TOWARDS THE COMPROMISE?

>> WELL, NOT ONLY THE TESTIMONY BUT I DIDN'T REALLY BELIEVE THAT THERE WOULD BE VERY MANY POLITICIANS THAT LIVED IN DOUGLAS COUNTY THAT WOULD VOTE FOR THAT MAP.

THAT IS ENOUGH TO FILIBUSTER IN THE LEGISLATURE, SO -- >> SENATOR WAYNE YOU HAD PROPOSED KEEPING DOUGLAS WHOLE AND ADDING BACK PARTS OF PAPILLION AND BELLEVUE SO YOU WOULD SPLIT SARPY COUNTY.

YOUR PROPOSAL WASN'T VOTED OUT OF COMMITTEE.

WHY WAS THAT THE BEST OPTION IN YOUR EYES?

>> IT WAS THE STARTING OPTION.

I THINK WHAT YOU SAW WAS BOTH MAPS THAT HAD A STARTING OPTION AND THEN YOU WORK ON WHAT YOU CAN COME OUT WITH.

THAT IS THE NATURE OF WHAT WE DO WHEN WE'RE MAKING SAUSAGE IN THE LAWS OR IN THIS CASE REDISTRICTING.

I THOUGHT IT WITH WAS THE BEST OPTION BECAUSE DOUGLAS COUNTY AND PART OF THE CITY OF BELLEVUE, THEY ARE VERY MUCH COMMUNITY INTEREST SAME PEOPLE.

THEY SHOP IN EACH COMMUNITY.

YOU DRIVE ACROSS 24TH STREET OR 14TH OR 10TH STREET YOU GO INTO BELLEVUE.

YOU DON'T SEE A DEMARCATION POINT LIKE "OH, NOW WE'RE IN SARPY COUNTY."

BUT WHAT WAS INTERESTING AND WHAT I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW GOING FORWARD YOU HAVE THE THREE FASTEST GROWING DISTRICTS, SARPY LANCASTER, AND DOUGLAS COUNTY AND THERE WERE MAPS THAT WE LOOKED AT THAT HAD THEM ALL IN DIFFERENT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS BECAUSE IN TEN YEARS IF THAT'S THE TREND THAT IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN SO WE HAD 14 DIFFERENT MAPS THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT AND WE ENDED UP SETTLING ON WHAT WE SETTLED ON.

>> SARPY COUNTY DID END UP GETTING SPLIT AND AS SENATOR LINEHAN MENTIONED YOU PROBABLY HAVE SARPY COUNTY RESIDENTS OUT THERE SAYING "WHY IT IS OKAY TO SPLIT US AND NOT SPLIT DOUGLAS COUNTY?"

HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT?

>> THE ANSWER IS WE -- ONE OF THE THINGS WE COMMITTED TO AND WHEN I SAY WE I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FOUR DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMITTEE WE WERE ADAMANT ABOUT WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO KEEP PEOPLE IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

WE WEREN'T GOING TO REMOVE INCUMBENTS.

CONGRESSMAN BACON LIVES IN SARPY COUNTY.

EVEN MY MAP AND EVEN THE OTHER VERSIONS OF MY MAP ALWAYS KEPT CONGRESSMAN BACON IN OFFICE.

THAT'S HOW WE GOT THERE.

IT'S NOT A SECRET.

THAT WAS ONE OF OUR CORE PRINCIPLES GOING IN IS THAT WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP INCUMBENTS IN THEIR DISTRICT.

WE CAN'T SAY THAT IS GOOD FOR LEGISLATURE BUT NOT GOOD FOR CONGRESS.

>> SENATOR LINEHAN, A LOT WAS MADE OF KEEPING CONGRESSMAN BACON IN HIS DISTRICT.

WAS TOO MUCH MADE OF THAT OR WAS THAT AN IMPORTANT PART OF IT?

>> CONGRESSMAN BACON HAS PROVED BEYOND ANY DOUBT I HAVE THAT HE'S A QUITE CAPABLE CONGRESSMAN AND HE'S VERY POPULAR AND I THINK IF WE HAD DONE OTHERWISE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VERY SIGNIFICANT BACKLASH FROM THE COMMUNITY.

>> WELL, THE CONGRESSIONAL MAPS WEREN'T THE ONLY ONES DISCUSSED WHEN IT CAME TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THE COMPETITION WAS LESS REPUBLICAN VERSUS DEMOCRAT AND MORE RURAL VERSUS URBAN.

AGAIN, MORE FROM FRED KNAPP OF NEBRASKA PUBLIC MEDIA NEWS.

>>> BECAUSE OF THE POPULATION SHIFTS FROM THE RURAL WEST TO THE URBAN EAST A DISTRICT ARGUABLY HAD TO SHIFT AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

THE DISTRICT NOW REPRESENTED BY SENATOR MATT WILLIAMS OF GOTHENBURG WAS DIVIDED UP AMONG THE SURROUNDING DISTRICTS AND A NEW DISTRICT WAS CREATED IN SARPY COUNTY IN THE RAPIDLY GROWING OMAHA SUBURBS.

OTHER THAN THAT THE OTHER REDISTRICTING FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION THE BOARD OF REGENTS AND JUDICIAL NOMINATION AND RETENTION THOSE WERE RELATIVELY NON-CONTROVERSIAL AND PASSED WITH OVERWHELMING MARGINS.

>>> BACK TO THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS, SENATOR WAYNE LET'S START WITH YOU.

THE NEW DISTRICTS CUT OUT DISTRICT 36 FROM DAWSON, CUSTER AND BUFFALO COUNTIES.

IT'S NOW --THAT NEW DISTRICT IS IN SARPY COUNTY.

ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THAT?

HOW DO YOU THINK IT TURNED OUT?

>> I THINK IT TURNED OUT WELL FOR THE STATE.

WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE.

IN ORDER DO THAT WE HAD TO SHIFT.

AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE SOME CONSTITUTIONAL GUIDELINES WE HAVE TO HAVE, OR WE HAVE WHICH IS WE HAVE TO TRY TO PRESERVE COUNTY GUIDELINES AT ALL COSTS.

I DO WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT HOW IMPORTANT THE MEDIA IS IN THIS.

WHEN THIS REDISTRICTING CAME OUT IN THE BEGINNING, A LOT OF MEDIA RAN WITH THE IDEA THERE WERE TWO DISTRICTS SUPPOSED TO MOVE ONE HERE AND ONE TO LINCOLN.

THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE.

IT WAS ABOUT 1.1 AND THE PROBLEM WAS WHERE THAT POPULATION GROWTH WAS AROUND SENATOR LINEHAN'S SENATOR DAY'S AND DEBOER'S DISTRICT.

THERE WAS NO OTHER OPTION THAN TO MOVE INTO THE OMAHA AREA.

THAT'S WHAT WE DID AND I THINK IT WORKED OUT WELL.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT DOUGLAS AND SARPY COUNTY WE KEPT A LOT OF THOSE COMMUNITY INTERESTS WHOLE.

IF YOU LOOK AT LINCOLN WE DID OUR BEST TO KEEP OUR COMMUNITY INTERESTS WHOLE AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RURAL NEBRASKA, WE KEPT BY MOVING CUSTARD COUNTY INTO 43, WHERE IT USED TO BE TEN YEARS AGO WE KEPT THOSE COMMUNITY INTERESTS WHOLE.

I THINK WE DID A VERY GOOD JOB.

>> SENATOR LINEHAN, DID YOU GET PUSHBACK FROM RURAL SENATORS?

I KNOW SENATOR GROENE PROBABLY WASN'T HAPPY WITH THE WAY THIS TURNED OUT BUT ARE THERE SENATORS OUT THERE WHO JUST FELT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE FOR RURAL NEBRASKA?

>> THERE ARE.

I HAVE EMPATHY FOR RURAL NEBRASKA, BUT THE SITUATION WAS WE DID NOT HAVE -- MY FIRST MAP HAD US STICKING A SEAT THAT WAS CLOSER TO LINCOLN AND MOVING THAT AND THEN KIND OF SHIFTING ALL OF THEM, BUT THEY HAVE TO GROW.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE AND I THINK IT DISAPPOINTS -- NOW WHEN WE GO BACK IN JANUARY WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HELP RURAL NEBRASKA GROW, TOO WHICH HELPS THE WHOLE STATE.

IT HELPS OMAHA IT HELPS LINCOLN IT HELPS SARPY COUNTY.

WE CAN'T HAVE THIS EVER-EVOLVING FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE.

IT'S NOT GOOD FOR OUR STATE.

>> THE DISTRICT 36 REPRESENTATIVE IS SENATOR MATT WILLIAMS WHO HAD SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE THAT REPRESENTATION.

BUT HE SAID ON THE FLOOR THAT YOU HAD A PHONE CALL OR A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND AFTER THAT HE SEEMED TO CHANGE HIS MIND.

WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM?

>> WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THERE, BUT I WILL SAY THIS ABOUT SENATOR WILLIAMS.

HE CARED ABOUT HIS DISTRICT VERY, VERY MUCH.

HE CARED ABOUT HIS HOME COUNTY DAWSON COUNTY VERY MUCH AND HE -- I AGREED WITH HIM THAT WE WOULD KEEP DAWSON COUNTY WHOLE.

WHEREVER IT WENT IT WOULD ALL BE TOGETHER.

WE WOULDN'T SPLIT HIS CITIES APART BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT WORK TOGETHER.

SO, IT WAS A HUGE THING FOR HIM TO STEP UP BECAUSE WE WERE NOT -- THAT KNOCK ON THE DOOR IS NOT WELCOMED BY ANY STATE SENATOR AND I AM VERY VERY GRATEFUL THAT HE WAS WILLING TO DO THAT.

>> IN THE END IT DID AMOUNT TO COMPROMISE.

IS THERE ANY CONCERNS THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE FINAL MAPS WE HAVE NOW FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND FOR CONGRESS THAT SOMEBODY DIDN'T GET, NOT WHAT THEY WANTED BUT WHAT THEY DESERVED?

>> I DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW.

I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERNS RIGHT NOW.

I DO I WANT TO POINT TO IT WASN'T JUST CHAIRWOMAN LINEHAN HAVING THE CONVERSATION.

I HAD TO MAKE THAT SAME PHONE CALL WHEN I INTRODUCED MY MAP TO REMOVE HUGHES FROM HIS DISTRICT OR TO MOVE HIS DISTRICT OVER.

THOSE ARE ALWAYS TOUGH CALLS TO HAVE.

HE GOT HIS CALL AT 7:30 IN THE MORNING AS I SAID, "HEY IN AN HOUR, IT'S COMING UP."

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY I'M SATISFIED WITH THE MAPS AND WHERE THEY ARE.

I THINK HINDSIGHT 20/20 IS ALWAYS GOING BE THERE.

THERE'S AREAS THAT WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE IMPROVED ON AND I THINK WE'LL MAKE SURE WE HAVE A DETAILED LIST THAT THE NEXT GROUP CAN IMPROVE ON TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T MAKE THE SAME HICCUPS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE MADE.

>> AT ONE POINT SPEAKER HILGERS SAID "I'M GOING TO SET A DEADLINE.

IF WE DON'T REACH THE COMPROMISE BY THIS DEADLINE, WE'RE GOING TO JUST GO HOME AND WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS IN JANUARY."

HOW SERIOUS OF A THREAT DO YOU THINK THAT WAS?

HOW MUCH DID IT MOTIVATE ALL OF THE SENATORS TO GET THINGS DONE?

>> IT WAS A VERY SERIOUS THREAT AND IT MOTIVATED US GREATLY.

NOBODY WANTED TO WAIT.

WELL, IT WAS PAINFUL SO YOU DON'T -- WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH SOMETHING PAINFUL AND ALMOST TO THE END YOU DON'T WANT TO START OVER LATER AND LEGISLATURES BY THEIR VERY NATURE NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE UNTIL THERE IS A TIMELINE.

THEY JUST DON'T.

I DON'T CARE IF IT'S IN D.C. OR IF IT'S HERE IT'S LEGISLATURES BECAUSE YOU'RE ALWAYS NEGOTIATING 'TIL THE VERY END SO YOU'RE GOING TO USE AS MUCH AS TIME AS YOU CAN TO GET AS MUCH AS YOU CAN FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

WITHOUT A TIMELINE WE'D STILL BE HERE.

>> SO IN TEN YEARS THIS LEGISLATURE GETS TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

SENATOR WAYNE YOU HAVE SAID THAT IF WE ESTABLISH AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION THAT'S AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION THAT'S NOT AN OPTION, REALLY.

BUT IF THERE WAS AN AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT OPTION?

SHOULD WE DO THE WAY WE DID IT OR SHOULD WE GO TO AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION?

>> IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE STATE THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS ARE APPOINTED AND ARE OFTEN RECOMMENDED BY ONE PERSON FROM THE SENATE MAJORITY ONE FROM THE SENATE MINORITY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE MAJORITY, HOUSE WHIP MINORITY.

SO THEY'RE STILL BIPARTISAN.

WE HAVE A 5-4 MAKEUP ON OUR COMMITTEE.

MORE IMPORTANTLY IF YOU DO LIKE IOWA THERE IS NO COMMUNITY INPUT.

THEY HAVE REALLY STAFF JUST DRAW IT AND IT'S AN UP-OR-DOWN VOTE AND IOWA JUST REJECTED THOSE.

WHAT IS THE BACKUP PLAN?

IN IOWA, THE SUPREME COURT DRAWS THEIR PLAN.

WELL, UNDERNEATH NEBRASKA YOU WOULD HAVE THE SAME CONSTITUENTS SAYING SUCH AND SUCH APPOINTED THESE SUPREME COURT JUDGES, THEY DREW IT IT IS STILL PARTISANSHIP SO I'M OKAY WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE.

WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE A LONGER TIMELINE AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF THE PUBLIC DIGEST THINGS A LITTLE MORE.

I THINK AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION CANNOT TRULY BE INDEPENDENT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY.

BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY BY THEMSELVES ARE NOT INDEPENDENT.

THEY HAVE A VOICE.

THEY HAVE A BELIEF.

THEY THINK CERTAIN THINGS SHOULD BE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND SO YOU ARE STILL BACK TO THE SAME THING, IN MY OPINION.

>> SENATOR LINEHAN IT WAS MESSY AT TIMES.

DO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP IT THIS WAY, OR IS AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AN OPTION?

>> I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH JUSTIN WAYNE.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS SUCH A THING AS AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION.

AS SOON AS YOU HAVE POLITICIANS APPOINTING PEOPLE NOBODY'S GOING TO BELIEVE THEY ARE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT.

SO WHEN YOU LOSE THE TRUST -- SO WE ARE, EVEN WITH TERM LIMITS WE ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY OUR CONSTITUENTS.

I THINK IF WE DID SOMETHING THAT WAS OUTRAGEOUS WE WOULD FEEL IT AT THE BALLOT BOX OR ANY FUTURE OFFICE WE MIGHT RUN FOR.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE PEOPLE DOING THE MAP BEING ELECTED BY NEBRASKANS TO REPRESENT NEBRASKANS.

>>> AS WE WIND DOWN HERE JUST A LITTLE BIT I WANT TO END WITH A TWEET.

SENATOR WAYNE, YOU TWEETED DURING THE START OF THE PROCESS "WHILE REDISTRICTING CAN BE POLARIZING, LET'S TAKE A MOMENT TO APPRECIATE THAT NEBRASKA CHOSE A WOMAN AND A BLACK MAN TO LEAD OUR EFFORTS TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY'S MOST SACRED RIGHT."

AFTER COMPLETING THE PROCESS HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT IT?

DO YOU THINK IT WENT THE WAY YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD?

>> NOT 100% THE WAY I THOUGHT IT WOULD, BUT IT STILL MAKES ME TEAR UP BECAUSE AT THAT MOMENT IN THAT TWEET AND FACEBOOK POST WE WERE BEYOND FRUSTRATED.

IT TOOK SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF IN THE ROOM SAYING "HEY, YOU KNOW YOU GUYS ARE MAKING HISTORY."

AND I'M LIKE "WHAT ARE YOU TAKING ABOUT?"

AND THEY'RE LIKE "YOU GUYS ARE LEADING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER" AND IT JUST MAKES YOU STEP BACK AND SAY YOU KNOW, WE MAY NOT GET EVERYTHING RIGHT WE MAY NOT BE 100% PERFECT, BUT WE ARE STRIVING TO BE BETTER.

THE FACT THAT WE ARE DOING THIS OR THAT WE DID THIS MEANS THAT NEBRASKA AND THIS COUNTRY ARE STILL MAKING STRIDES TO BE BETTER.

>> I HAVE TO ASK YOU YOU'VE SUBMITTED YOUR NAME FOR DISTRICT JUDGESHIP IN DOUGLAS COUNTY AND IF THAT HAPPENS IT WOULD BE A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR APPOINTING YOU AS A DEMOCRAT.

IF THAT HAPPENS AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE THAT WOULD EVEN BE A POSSIBILITY, BUT IF THAT HAPPENS AND YOU LOOK BACK IS THIS THE CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT OF YOUR TIME IN THE LEGISLATURE THE REDISTRICTING?

>> NO, NO AT ALL.

I MEAN, NOT AT ALL.

THE CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT WOULD BE THE LEGISLATION WE PASSED FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LAST YEAR FOR NORTH OMAHA.

THE FACT THAT WE DID AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND SET ASIDE $18 MILLION FOR NORTH OMAHA.

MY COMMUNITY WE HAVE PUSHED FOR A LOT.

THAT IS PART OF WHERE I'M AT.

WE HAVE DONE A LOT.

MY LEGISLATION I CAME IN WITH ABOUT 100 THINGS THAT I WANTED TO DO FOR NORTH OMAHA AND EVERY YEAR WE ARE CHECKING OFF A BOX.

WE HAVE A PLAN BUT MY CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT WOULD BE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TOOLS THAT WE TRYING TO DO TO CHANGE NORTH OMAHA.

>> WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

>> I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE AND PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE HAVE HEARD THIS, REDISTRICTING HASN'T BEEN THE REASON WHY NORTH OMAHA IS IN POVERTY.

IT IS OTHER LEGISLATION.

WHILE REDISTRICTING IS IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF PEOPLE FOR MY COMMUNITY THE COMMUNITY I REPRESENT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING.

>> WE WILL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

SENATOR LINEHAN JUST 30 SECONDS OR SO HERE BUT AS WE LOOK AHEAD TO THE NEXT SESSION TAXES ARE GOING TO PLAY A VERY BIG PART OF IT.

AS A MATTER OF FACT YOU THINK WE CAN MAKE REAL CHANGES.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT NOW WHEN IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN THE PAST?

>> WELL, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

I'M CONCERNED WE HAVE 12 SENATORS THAT ARE THERE NOW THAT WON'T BE THERE WHEN WE COME BACK IN TWO YEARS.

OUR CLASS IS 17 SENATORS.

WE ARE IN A GOOD PLACE FINANCIALLY WITH REVENUES ARE UP.

THIS MORNING I HEARD SPEAKER HILGERS GIVE A SPEECH ABOUT THINKING BIG.

I THINK WE'RE AT THAT PLACE WHERE WE NEED TO REALLY THINK BIG, WHAT CAN WE REALLY DO AND TAXES ARE VERY MUCH TIED TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL BE WATCHING THAT, AS WELL.

SENATOR LOU ANN LINEHAN AND SENATOR JUSTIN WAYNE THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THIS INTERVIEW AND TONIGHT'S PROGRAM ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE.

JUST GO TO NEBRASKAPUBLICMEDIA.ORG/ SPEAKINGOFNEBRASKA AND JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AT NEBRASKA PUBLIC MEDIA NEWS.

S S >>> THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC IS NOW OVER, A YEAR AND A HALF OLD IN NEBRASKA.

HERE TO DISCUSS THE LATEST PANDEMIC DETAILS IS DR. JOSUE GUTIERREZ A FAMILY PRACTICE PHYSICIAN AT SALINE MEDICAL SPECIALTIES IN CRETE.

DR. GUTIERREZ THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME SPEAKING ON SUCH AN IMPORTANT TOPIC ONCE AGAIN.

>> YEAH, IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

WE DID THIS LAST APRIL AT THAT POINT AND WHEN WE DID THAT WE HAD ONE SITUATION.

NOW, THE DELTA VARIANT KIND OF DROVE ANOTHER WAVE OF CASES BUT IT APPEARS THAT THE SURGE IS SLOWING, MAYBE RECEDING.

OVERALL, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON HOW WE ARE DOING WITH THE PANDEMIC?

>> LIKE YOU SAID THE DELTA REALLY THREW A WRENCH IN THE WHOLE SITUATION.

YOU KNOW THINGS WERE SLOWING DOWN BUT THEN DELTA VARIANT CAME IN TWICE AS VIRULENT AND REALLY EASILY SPREAD SO THAT REALLY CAUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE BY SURPRISE BUT THE GOOD THING IS IT IS SLOWING.

IN LANCASTER COUNTY THERE'S BEEN VERY GOOD THINGS HAPPENING WITH THE MASK MANDATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT HAVE REALLY HELPED WITH THOSE THINGS.

RIGHT NOW, OUR HOSPITALS ARE QUITE FULL BUT WE ARE SEEING MOST OF THESE CASES IN THAT RURAL AREAS THAT ARE ACTUALLY SENDING A LOT OF THEIR PATIENTS TO THE METRO AREAS IN NEBRASKA TO THOSE HOSPITALS.

THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THE FOCI OF THE SPREAD IS AT THIS TIME MOSTLY IN THE RURAL AREAS.

>> CASES MAY BE LOOKING BETTER COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE BETTER, TOO YET HOSPITALS ARE MORE FULL BECAUSE WE ARE CONTINUING TO DO THOSE PROCEDURES.

THOSE HAVE NEVER STOPPED.

THE GOVERNOR'S DECLARED A STAFFING EMERGENCY.

AS A STATE, DO YOU THINK WE ARE DOING ENOUGH?

>> AS A STATE I THINK WE ARE GETTING THERE.

I THINK WE ALWAYS NEED TO BE COGNIZANT THAT SOCIAL DISTANCING, VACCINES VACCINES, VACCINES.

I THINK THAT WE ARE NEAR THAT 70% THRESHOLD BUT WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO PUSH FURTHER TO GET THAT 70%.

I THINK THAT VACCINATIONS ARE GOING TO BE IMPORTANT FOR NEBRASKA FOR US TO TRULY GET BETTER.

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT VACCINATIONS, WE ARE HEARING MORE ABOUT BOOSTERS OUT NOW FOR THOSE 65 AND OLDER AND HIGH RISK INDIVIDUALS.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK THE BOOSTER SHOTS ARE?

>> RIGHT NOW, THE STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT THE PFIZER -- SOME OF THE DECLINING ANTIBODY LEVELS THAT IS WHY THE BOOSTER IS SO IMPORTANT FOR THOSE PEOPLE AT HIGH RISK SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE THOSE PATIENTS TO ACTUALLY GET THE BOOSTER SHOT.

RIGHT NOW, ONLY PFIZER IS THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR THIS BOOSTER SHOT.

IN THE FUTURE MODERNA AND JOHNSON & JOHNSON WILL BE COMING UP TO THE FDA HERE IN THE NEXT WEEK.

THEN ALSO VACCINES FOR 5 TO 11-YEAR-OLDS WILL ALSO BE SEEN IN THE NEXT TWO, THREE OR BE HEARD IN THE NEXT TWO THREE WEEKS.

HOPEFULLY IN A MONTH MONTH AND A HALF WE'LL HAVE SOME TYPE OF VACCINATION FOR CHILDREN.

>> SHOULD PARENTS HAVE ANY CONCERN ABOUT A VACCINATION FOR THEIR KIDS?

>> AT THIS POINT THERE HAVE BEEN NO REAL ADVERSE OUTCOMES TO THE PEDIATRIC POPULATION SO I THINK THEY SHOULD FEEL SAFE THAT THIS WILL BE SAFE FOR THEIR KIDS, AS WELL.

>> DR. GUTIERREZ YOU WORK A LOT WITH THE HISPANIC AND COVID HAS CERTAINLY IMPACTED PEOPLE OF COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

TELL ME, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU THINK THEY ARE BEING IMPACTED NOW, THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY IN PARTICULAR?

>> I THINK THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY HAS ALWAYS HAD A TENDENCY TO LOOK AT THINGS AND BE VERY CAREFUL VERY WARY OF VACCINATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT SO I THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME HESITANCY WITH THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY WITH VACCINES AND GETTING THROUGH THAT HESITANCY WILL REQUIRE LOCAL LEADERS TO TRULY TALK TO THEIR POPULATION TRULY TALK TO THEIR NEIGHBORS ABOUT HOW SAFE THIS VACCINE TRULY IS.

>> OF COURSE, WE ARE ALSO GETTING INTO FLU SEASON SO THERE IS TALK ABOUT THE FLU AND THE COVID VACCINES.

ANY CONCERNS WITH GETTING BOTH?

>> NO, NO CONCERNS AT ALL.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME AND IT WILL BE OKAY.

YOU CAN HAVE SOME MORE FLULIKE SYMPTOMS BUT AT THIS TIME THEY ARE BOTH SAFE TO GET.

>> THAT IS GOOD TO HEAR.

DR. JOSUE GUTIERREZ A FAMILY PRACTICE PHYSICIAN AT SALINE MEDICAL SPECIALTIES IN CRETE THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND ALWAY PLEASE CONTINUE TO DO SOCIAL DISTANCING AND VACCINES VACCINES, VACCINES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH DR. GUTIERREZ.

FOR THE LATEST ON PANDEMIC NEWS DON'T FORGET YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE NEBRASKAPUBLICMEDIA.ORG/ CORONAVIRUS.

S S >> THAT'S ALL THIS WEEK ON "SPEAKING OF NEBRASKA."

THANKS TO SENATORS LOU ANN LINEHAN AND JUSTIN WAYNE AND DR. JOSUE GUTIERREZ.

NEXT WEEK, JOIN US FOR A DISCUSSION ABOUT AGRICULTURE WITH FORMER SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE, U.S.

SENATOR AND NEBRASKA GOVERNOR MIKE JOHANNS.

UNTIL THEN, I'M DENNIS KELLOGG.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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